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fern wrote on Oct 15, 2009 12:48 PM:
This isn't about White North Bend against the Red man, so why is everybody making it in to that? Does anybody remember when the tribe volunteered to pay this? Do any of you pay a yearly fee to the city for sewer hookup?
Rob Schab, the manager of the Coos Bay-North Bend Water Board, said his agency acts as the cities’ billing and collecting agent, including for North Bend’s waste water and storm water services. It is collecting the fee from tribal properties that then goes to the city of North Bend.
http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2009/09/30/news/doc4ac39416a1d8d856662080.txt
September 30, 2009
Water Board says the tribe is paying for its sewer service
At this point, the tribe is up-to-date on its payments, he said. Schab added that the tribe is paying sewer fees at a rate that is standard for a business of its size.
Rob Schab, the manager of the Coos Bay-North Bend Water Board, said his agency acts as the cities’ billing and collecting agent, including for North Bend’s waste water and storm water services. It is collecting the fee from tribal properties that then goes to the city of North Bend.
http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2009/09/30/news/doc4ac39416a1d8d856662080.txt
September 30, 2009
Water Board says the tribe is paying for its sewer service
At this point, the tribe is up-to-date on its payments, he said. Schab added that the tribe is paying sewer fees at a rate that is standard for a business of its size.
conservativenotrepublican wrote on Oct 14, 2009 7:08 PM:
To Ceasar Chavez:
Uh.....however it happened.....your people were conquered.....pure and simple. When you're conquered, you're conquered. Get over it.
DOnt give me any jazz about how easy it is for me to say that either......my mother was kicked out of her own country by invaders. But she made a fine life for herself since. So if your life sucks, you got yourself to blame, pal.
Uh.....however it happened.....your people were conquered.....pure and simple. When you're conquered, you're conquered. Get over it.
DOnt give me any jazz about how easy it is for me to say that either......my mother was kicked out of her own country by invaders. But she made a fine life for herself since. So if your life sucks, you got yourself to blame, pal.
Just Me wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:59 PM:
Hiluix: What you don't seem to understand here is, they aren't just "sticking it to the government" as you say, they are sticking it to everyone of us taxpayers that HAVE to pay OUR way in this world that we live in, or we suffer the consequences! They are also ripping off every single person that stays in that luxury hotel that they charge a room tax for that isn't going where it is supposed to go. I wonder if these tourists would actually stay there if they knew they were being scammed in this way?
Hiluix wrote on Oct 14, 2009 2:06 PM:
Stick it to em Indian tribe I love it when people stick it the government .
m00npenny wrote on Oct 14, 2009 10:46 AM:
Thank you Just me. Sorry your post got cut. This one might be cut too, we’ll see.
How much more do the Indians expect? For everyone to leave and give back American soil? Not going to happen, ever. Just as they took African slaves and over ran other tribes, and took their land from them, they were overrun by American settlers. It’s a case of the strong overpowering the weak. It’s been the way our “world” has been run for hundreds of thousands of years. And yet in history, you won’t find an incident of anything ever being given back. Accept it and move on in life. How long are you going to play the victim or use that as an excuse for your failures?
Cedco owes the money, and is claiming the race card, again.
The city of North Bend is not going to cave, again. Pay up.
How much more do the Indians expect? For everyone to leave and give back American soil? Not going to happen, ever. Just as they took African slaves and over ran other tribes, and took their land from them, they were overrun by American settlers. It’s a case of the strong overpowering the weak. It’s been the way our “world” has been run for hundreds of thousands of years. And yet in history, you won’t find an incident of anything ever being given back. Accept it and move on in life. How long are you going to play the victim or use that as an excuse for your failures?
Cedco owes the money, and is claiming the race card, again.
The city of North Bend is not going to cave, again. Pay up.
Just Me wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:03 AM:
To Moonpenny: Thank you for your comment, I tried posting one against him also, but, as usual, mine didn't get posted and it was milder than yours, well said! And to 1313, I have just quit posting because of the pick and choose manner that The World seems to carry out in their comment section any more, if THEY don't like what you say it just does not get posted, even if it is within their own guide lines. This probably won't get on either, but no harm in trying!
1313 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 7:42 AM:
I am wondering with all the "anti pay my bills" being done by The Mill, why the Chamber of Commerce and other meeings and luncheons are being held at The Mill. And the editor of this paper is doing speeches there, at the meetings.
No wonder some of my "comments" aren't being put on here ! !
No wonder some of my "comments" aren't being put on here ! !
m00npenny wrote on Oct 13, 2009 5:09 PM:
ceaserchavez1027: Spoken like a true ignorant. If reparations are to be made to groups, by their former captors, the tribes now owe Black-Native Americans aka The Freedmen & Freedwomen. Even after the US abolished slavery, the tribes refused. Yes, to those of you out there who didn’t know, yes the Indian tribes of the US owned African slaves. They even moved west so they could keep their slaves after slavery had been abolished.
It took the government stepping in and forcing the tribes to release the African slaves. Years after slavery had been deemed, illegal. So in keeping in line with what you spew, you now owe the Freedmen. Pay up.
Even today, the Freedmen & Freedwomen, descendents of Native Americans and African slave unions, are now having to fight in out in court for membership in the tribal nations. You’re a racist. Don’t think we “white inbreeds” are for one moment feeling sorry for your history, because we are not. It happened then, this is now, get over it. And while were at it, all Indian sovereignty should be abolished. Tribes need to join the rest of the country, under one law.
It took the government stepping in and forcing the tribes to release the African slaves. Years after slavery had been deemed, illegal. So in keeping in line with what you spew, you now owe the Freedmen. Pay up.
Even today, the Freedmen & Freedwomen, descendents of Native Americans and African slave unions, are now having to fight in out in court for membership in the tribal nations. You’re a racist. Don’t think we “white inbreeds” are for one moment feeling sorry for your history, because we are not. It happened then, this is now, get over it. And while were at it, all Indian sovereignty should be abolished. Tribes need to join the rest of the country, under one law.
Just An Observer wrote on Oct 12, 2009 11:07 PM:
Roger Ramjet, what about simply cutting off the services and the contract, which you say is null and void. No one can be forced to make a contract. Let the sovereign Indians go their way and the city of NB can go it's way. See how long the casino stays open with no sewer and no fire protection! They can either go along with the deal that's been going on or go out of business for all I care any more. The city isn't on the hook for $40 million, it's the Coquille Indians. If anyone has to bend to the other side's will it's the Tribe. But they want to go to court in Eugene, so now the city of NB and it's taxpayers will be out for some huge legal fees. I sure hope the contract is as null and void as you say it is since if that is the truth, all services can be suspended immediately. See what the Tribe's insurance company will say when the hotel has no fire department to respond and what the Health Department says when a toilet is unflushable.
1313 wrote on Oct 12, 2009 5:55 PM:
"you probably won't print this one either" I guess I have to be Indian to complain about other people according to the censor of this site.
But anyway, a lot of people have had ancestors go through rough horrible times, but what is going to undo that?
Certainly not doing good things for someone now. Giving ME land or money or anything, will not help a dead ancestor.
Nothing can undo what has been done many years ago! ! !
But anyway, a lot of people have had ancestors go through rough horrible times, but what is going to undo that?
Certainly not doing good things for someone now. Giving ME land or money or anything, will not help a dead ancestor.
Nothing can undo what has been done many years ago! ! !
secret sauce wrote on Oct 12, 2009 3:07 PM:
It really isn't that complicated (unless you can prove you are 1/16 indian). Pay your bills by the due date or you go to court. Good luck.
fairplay wrote on Oct 12, 2009 2:25 PM:
To Ceasarchavez....there is no dispute that Native Americans, Blacks, Chinese, Jews, and many others on this continent were treated with malice, racism, greed, and ignorance. There have been some long awaited and well deserved concessions that have been made for the Indians. What do you think would make it all right?
old 53 wrote on Oct 11, 2009 2:15 PM:
What seems to be missing in all this is why the tribe wants to renegotiate. Certainly if this was an issue of fairness it would come up before 15 years passed. One can only summize that it is more an issue of economics. The tribe obligated themselves to the tune of 40 some million dollars expanding their hotel to try and attract more people to this community and then the economy turned on them. If the tribe is struggling economically they certainly don't want to make their creditors, employees or the community uneasy by putting it in print. The city should at least listen in some kind of private forum where everyone can lay their cards on the table. Perhaps a temporary reduction in the payment until such time as the economy turns around would be a good solution.
Roger Ramjet wrote on Oct 10, 2009 2:35 PM:
People: This is a complex issue and very little of it is being covered accurately or comprehensively by this newspaper. Ignorance runs rampant when people blanketly accept newspaper articles as fact. Part of the reason you're not getting the germane information about this case is that one party in the suit isn't talking. There is a lot of case precedence around this matter. Generally, Tribes aren't obliged to pay state and local taxes on trust property. Secondly, consider for a moment that for legal reasons the contract you are thumping was void upon execution. The Tribe has every right to renegotiate this agreement. The city would do well get at the table and start negotiating in good faith rather than resorting to misleading publicity stunts to further cloud this complicated issue and elicit misinformed emotion.
ceaserchavez1027 wrote on Oct 10, 2009 10:56 AM:
I have no idea what any of you are complaining about, The Coquille Indian Tribe has done more for this community then any of you people have, I suppose its the inbred gene in all of you white people. I guess its alright 159 years ago to come into the bay region to rape, massacre and terminate my tribe. I am disgusted at the greed the city has showed.
ceaserchavez1027 wrote on Oct 10, 2009 10:55 AM:
In my opinion I think it would be great if the Russian military or some other militaristic influence came in raped and pillaged all of your kids and then trying not to resist
May only misfortunes come your way
May only misfortunes come your way
fairplay wrote on Oct 9, 2009 6:55 PM:
To Azlefty...How about the room tax that they collect, and don't pay? If they signed the contract that didn't stipulate a cap on the utilities, I would think they are bound to the agreement unless a new agreement can be negotiated. I think they should honor their contract and the tax due, or create their sovereign Utilities and Services, then they wouldn't have to answer to the city. It is apparent that the community is not sympathetic in their comments for these few articles to the tribe. And the community contributes a good portion to their annual income. Right, wrong, or otherwise, these issues may come back to bite them.
getaclue wrote on Oct 8, 2009 3:06 PM:
All of you just do not get it. This area is not producing any money. You have let all of the jobs go. Many of you have never attended a meeting that would promote jobs for this area. In fact Bangor School should just be a dog walking park the hech with jobs. If i were paying the city $650k a year it better include breakfast every morning in bed. Get a Clue
NB_Rez wrote on Oct 8, 2009 10:26 AM:
AZLEFTY - You make a very good point. It's unfortunate that your common sense and logic are lost to most of the people making comments in this forum.
azlefty wrote on Oct 8, 2009 8:38 AM:
There have been several Court Decisions that have ruled that the amount paid "in lieu of services" cannot exceed the cost of those services. Many of these types of contracts have been charging tribes 3 to 5 times the actual cost. This could be the issue here.
azlefty wrote on Oct 8, 2009 8:35 AM:
While I don't know the details of this issue I would like to point out some generalities that may apply: The proper place for this is Federal Court, the Treaties with the tribes do give them sovereignty; the easiest comparison is if the City sued the State of California, the proper Jurisdiction would be Federal Court, it is the same for Tribes. Also most of these agreements stipulate that they will be heard in Federal Court unless both parties agree otherwise.
There have been several Court decisions that have stated that Cities may charge no more than the actual costs of the services provided, in the past many of these "In Lieu of" agreements had the Tribes paying 3 or 4 times the value of the services provided and this is possibly what the argument is about.
There have been several Court decisions that have stated that Cities may charge no more than the actual costs of the services provided, in the past many of these "In Lieu of" agreements had the Tribes paying 3 or 4 times the value of the services provided and this is possibly what the argument is about.
m00npenny wrote on Oct 8, 2009 12:56 AM:
Their narcissistic behavior is quickly making their fight seem trivial. If they refuse to pay what is due, what is contracted, shut the services off.
Let the attorney's drag it out, weeks, months, years. But while we all wait, close the casino and the hotel. There is NO reason they should continue to get free services, they're not that special. I wonder how one would go about petioning the courts to revoke their sovereignty status. Not to mention, their failure to pay their portion, will have to be made up through North Bend’s property taxes. Don’t ya just love having more moochers to take care of!
Let the attorney's drag it out, weeks, months, years. But while we all wait, close the casino and the hotel. There is NO reason they should continue to get free services, they're not that special. I wonder how one would go about petioning the courts to revoke their sovereignty status. Not to mention, their failure to pay their portion, will have to be made up through North Bend’s property taxes. Don’t ya just love having more moochers to take care of!
1313 wrote on Oct 7, 2009 7:59 PM:
I really don't understand with all the money The Mill is making off the RV Park, the Hotel, the Casino, the restaurants and the bars, why they can't pay this small amount of money to the city of NB, and instead will go to court over this. Although I guess they get there legal fees free too...
This is not right that The Mill can make everyone mad at Indians, when it's just a few who are causing all the trouble and probably not even all Indians at that...
This is not right that The Mill can make everyone mad at Indians, when it's just a few who are causing all the trouble and probably not even all Indians at that...
orecoast007 wrote on Oct 7, 2009 5:33 PM:
I think Mr.Kenney is "AFRAID" that he will lose his case in Coos County courts.. This is a Coos County matter and I could hear him crying "Soverign Nation"...
coos bay person wrote on Oct 7, 2009 4:48 PM:
The tribe should just pay there bill. And if I were North Bend and the tribe doesn't pay, I would renegotiate for NO future service to the casino. Sounds to me like the casino likes to have the druggies around spending there penny at a time to have a place to go.
amazed wrote on Oct 7, 2009 4:31 PM:
So you have money for a lawyer and lawsuit but you don't have money to pay for the services NB provides for you? Sounds like they have money to me.
secret sauce wrote on Oct 7, 2009 1:49 PM:
Doesn't this ordeal sort of remind you of that scene from "The Godfather" where Michael Corleone says to Moe Green, "your casino loses money..."
Eastsider wrote on Oct 7, 2009 11:56 AM:
Twain famously said, "A bad laweyer can hold up a case for months, but a good lawyer can hold it up much longer."
The tribe isn't interested in settling, they are stone-walling NB. The City needs to tack on damages to their lawsuit to pay for their legal fees.
The tribe isn't interested in settling, they are stone-walling NB. The City needs to tack on damages to their lawsuit to pay for their legal fees.
teacher wrote on Oct 7, 2009 11:50 AM:
What baffles me is whether the tribe, when they have said for months they would not pay for services given, EVER said "We can't pay now, but here is our solution to pay for what we have used."
This negotiation referred to in the last paragraph is unheard of until now according to what I've read in the paper.
This all seems like a horrible double standard. The tribe is allowed special status to not follow the laws of the land. The tribe is rendered services from outside the tribe, signs a contract to pay for it, and then hides behind the federal government when they don't want to pay.
I wish my life was so charmed. Surely the tribe membership is not proud of this behavior.
This negotiation referred to in the last paragraph is unheard of until now according to what I've read in the paper.
This all seems like a horrible double standard. The tribe is allowed special status to not follow the laws of the land. The tribe is rendered services from outside the tribe, signs a contract to pay for it, and then hides behind the federal government when they don't want to pay.
I wish my life was so charmed. Surely the tribe membership is not proud of this behavior.
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