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Thomas wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:37 AM:
OK, then consider the energy in your car's gas tank as being equivalent to a couple hand grenades, and that in an LNG tanker as exceeding both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki A-bombs put together.
Get it now?
There is a compelling arguement car fire vs lng ship fire wrote on Nov 9, 2008 2:03 PM:
Obviously she/he (too much) doesn't live on the coast/bay with the rest of the 17K people that would be affected if/when a Lng ships causes fire & blows up. Obviously she doesn't live near the route of the 230 miles of the 36 inch pipeline that will go directly to Northern California where the gas will be used!
Just think Oregon citizens get all risk & trash our beautiful coast at the same time, just so Northern California can get the gas & Oregon government gets a little extra tax money (That will be dumped into the other SCAM projects going on rail line, new airport, etc), such a deal for this area & Oregon citizens! I'm undecided too....NOT!!!
Jane wrote on Nov 9, 2008 8:11 AM:
Coos Bay resident wrote on Nov 8, 2008 5:03 PM:
Too Much wrote on Nov 8, 2008 3:58 AM:
Whether or not you believe I'm undecided, that's your issue, no doubt its because you don't like being questioned on things you can't back up (like detroit).
I go back and forth about LNG because of eminent domain. I feel for those folks. The effects on salmon are a concern for me as well; the fishing industry has been through enough.
The danger.. no that doesn't bother me; not when i consider the gas in my car is more likely to get me then the LNG.
The economy, that's a big issue, improvement needs to come. Locals will be put to work at least in the construction industry, and even if those 39 jobs go to out of area folks, they'll become locals once they move here and will add to our economy.
I rather enjoyed Jody McAfree's editorial, you could take a lesson from her on how to give a compelling argument, because the way you like to attack people that dispute your facts is not doing your cause any favors.
ha wrote on Nov 7, 2008 4:02 PM:
You're better off giving up this argument - its fun to read, but honestly...not one of them is open enough to see your point.
Dave from NB wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:46 PM:
You claim to be "undecided" on this Lng at Jordan Cove? Something just doesn't add up or make sense here, since you like to research things? Especially given facts like this about Lng:
Air polluter,
Lng ship having a USA government study 2 mile hazard zone that would be traveling within a 1/2 mile of approximately 17,000 directly affected residents here,
Lng is 2 times more expensive then gas used today by Oregon citizens, increased dependence of foreign countries for energy needs,
230 miles of Oregon land will be lost with 400 Oregon citizens directly affected losing 80 foot wide section of their land,
land values go down & insurance rates go up,
appromiately 39 jobs created that no local will qualify for due to education & experience requirements &
the list can go on & on!
Sorry, but I don't believe you are "undecided" on this Lng issue, because if you weigh the pro's vs the con's, there's little doubt that Lng will have a BIG negative impact on this area & Oregon forever!
Jane wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:12 PM:
Your quote: "I personally prefer our area", then later say quote: "There's no way to know how LNG will impact tourism/relocation. We simply don't know the long term effects and for you to claim you know based on Detroit and Pittsburgh isn't a very compelling argument"
I'd call that a NONcompelling argument claiming you like this area as it stands, obviously you support this LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove by doing this passive aggressive style of turning & twisting things in favor of this LNG SCAM or why else would you argue such nonsense as saying industrial places attract tourist/Baby Boomers just as NONindustrial nice places (Hawaii, Florida, Az, etc) do, like there's no difference??? Nothing fun in your argument when 400 Oregon citizens are going to be FORCED to give up their land due to this LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove!
Yeah my next vacation I am going to detroit NOT wrote on Nov 7, 2008 10:31 AM:
Common Sense wrote on Nov 7, 2008 9:18 AM:
Tourist are on VACTION in most cases & want:
A) Special beautiful places to see & relax as Hawaii, Florida just to name a few in the USA. They aren't going to places like Detroit (Crime, Dirty BIG city)!
As for as Baby boomer are concerned they want:
A) Less people (Most made their living in BIG cities),
B) Less crime (BIG cities have MORE crime),
C) Less pollution (BIG cities have MORE air pollution),
D) Cheaper place to live due to being on fixed income after retiring (BIG cities are MORE expensive.
Bottomline is: Tourist/Baby Boomers will come here LESS if this area turns into a industrial garbage dumping ground, because there is too many other nicer areas to go to! Old sayin applys here with some posters in here "can't teach people common sense"...
too much wrote on Nov 7, 2008 3:23 AM:
The New York times named it in the top 53 places to go in 2008, Travel Smart named it to the top 10 cities to visit. The All Star Game was there, the SuperBowl and now the NCAA championship. There are 36,000 hotel rooms in Detroit.
As for Pittsburgh, originally you stated no one wanted to visit or live there, glad to see you've changed your stance on that.
My point is...don't make up "facts" based on your likes and dislikes. There's no way to know how LNG will impact tourism/relocation. We simply don't know the long term effects and for you to claim you know based on Detroit and Pittsburgh isn't a very compelling argument.
I understand that LNG is a topic that people are passionate about, but putting down supporters of LNG or the undecideds like myself isn't going to compel anyone to support your cause, it just creates antagonism.
Jane wrote on Nov 5, 2008 2:33 PM:
Now look up Detroit (It's crime rate & how many are visiting the Great Lakes & NOT crime ridden Detroit) & then look up Pittsburgh it's less industrial on why it's rebounded & why more Baby boomers are retiring there? Add it up & industrial places are NOT the places tourists & Baby Boomers are going to visit/live there SORRY! Nice try on your 1/2 truth twist & turn facts that don't explain what the numbers really represent!
P.S. Have you been to Detroit or Pittsburgh, because I have & Detroit is the WORSE (Nothing but crime, drugs & little work) & Pittsburgh is getting better (You can actually see the sky is blue now vs Black in the old steel industrial pollution days)!
Too much wrote on Nov 4, 2008 5:10 PM:
Jane wrote on Nov 3, 2008 9:05 AM:
Your quote:
detroit - 15.9 million visitors a year
pittsburgh -10 million+ visitors a year. And in 2006 they were named the #1 place for baby boomers.
This is laughable & totally not true, Detroit (One of the highest crime rates of the USA & continues to lose people vs people moving there!), people visit the great lake there next to Detroit, but NOT Detroit & Pittsburge (Has rebounded in the last couple of years because it's going away from Industrial & not as polluted as it was!) are two of the most depressed places in the USA, besides New Orleans, but "maybe" someone will believe your 1/2 truth nonsense, sorry but I don't!
P.S. Anyone thinking or supporting this LNG SCAM here is going to profit from this & NOT because it's good for the area's long term propersity!
too much wrote on Nov 1, 2008 12:54 PM:
I completely agree with you that our area is special and beautiful, but you're wrong about tourists not wanting to visit areas like detroit and pittsburgh.
detroit - 15.9 million visitors a year
pittsburgh -10 million+ visitors a year. And in 2006 they were named the #1 place for baby boomers.
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but can't you see how you're proving my point? You're giving blanket statements without using any real data or facts.
I don't know what the answer is to LNG in our area, but i do know statements like yours are exactly the reason i want a decision made one way or the other so that all this will stop.
Thomas wrote on Nov 1, 2008 11:59 AM:
They are lying, and why is a very good question to ask?
No LNG facility in the USA is now nor ever will permit flights anywhere near to a practically unprotectable, fully loaded LNG tanker while in harbor. The LNG folks might be sociopathic, but they're certainly not that stupid!
Jane wrote on Nov 1, 2008 7:10 AM:
Info for you on tourists, they visit areas that are special, beautiful such as Hawaii, Arizona, Florida, etc. etc. & they don't visit places like Pittsburge, Detroit that have industrial, thus if this LNG SCAM comes to a beautiful coast (One of the BEST in the USA), they would be discouraged & go somewhere else instead!
Baby Boomer retirements on the other hand are looking to move away from cities, industrial places & looking for quieter/Less people , cleaner/non pollution, cheaper, beauty/non high rise buildings, thus if this LNG SCAM comes here they would be couraged from visiting/living here!
It's obvious, if you trash this beautiful coast with industrial you'll lose MORE in terms of beauty & future tourist/retirement $$$ vs the few temporary local jobs (If there is any) or little tax money you would generate from this LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove!
Too much wrote on Oct 31, 2008 3:08 PM:
Just because 30 million baby boomers are retiring does not mean they are retiring in Coos Bay or would be deterred from it due to LNG. As for the 700k tourists that come to Oregon, its actually a far greater number that come to Oregon as a whole and again.. it does not necessarily mean they would be deterred.
Thank you for proving my point, you took what I said and twisted it into your own meaning and belittled me for it.
The only thing i can't argue with you is your statement about trusting the airport commissioners, you're right to point out they haven't been exactly stellar.
Jane wrote on Oct 31, 2008 8:41 AM:
I'll address your comments:
So you think temporary jobs (If there is any?) & a little tax money makes up for all the safety issues that will NEVER go away along with 400 Oregon citizens losing 80 foot wide section of their land?
It's a proven Government study that an LNG ship has a 2 mile hazard burn zone, thus if a ship is within a mile of the airport no flights will occur! It's pathetic if you believe anything the airport commissioners say anyways (Wasting tax payers $$$ with new airport without securing long term airlines companies & now going to put in 230K parking machines & charging $5-$8 for parking per day!)
It's a FACT 700K tourist visit Oregon a yr & OVER 30 MILLION Baby Boomers are retiring within the next 5 yrs!
Only 1/2/ZERO truths are coming from you SORRY!
too much wrote on Oct 31, 2008 2:23 AM:
No locals will be hired- Really? when Titan was here, they had no problem finding qualified locals. LNG will create hundreds of temporary construction jobs that might help people through tough economic times.
Disrupts airport flights? didn't the airport board say it wouldn’t?
Discourage thousands of tourists and MILLIONS of baby boomers from moving here? Really..Millions? what data do you have to support that? it hasn't seemed to hurt Newport.
California is not the enemy; many of our products are exported. No one cries when Christmas trees or pinot noir is sold to CA and they add dollars into our economy.
To the other side, Home Depot is not the same as what's going with the anti-LNG’ers, its not a fair comparison.
FERC doesn't have our best interest in mind when making decisions, they certainly didn't when they "helped" with the salmon and they don't regarding wave energy proposals.
Heres Your Sign wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:27 PM:
Jane wrote on Oct 30, 2008 3:21 PM:
Making a little property tax for this California LNG SCAM & Oregon gets the following for that extra tax revenue:
1) Safety risks (At Jordon Cove, 230 miles of pipe that could rupture & finally the LNG ship that has a 2 mile hazard burn zone coming within a 1/2 mile of populated area (Affecting 17,000 residents here),
2) 400 Oregon citizens going to have there land (80 foot wide section) taken from them,
3) Air polluter,
4) NO Jobs locals qualify for,
5) LNG ship disrupts fishing boats & NEW Airport flights every time it arrives,
6) Discourages Thousands Tourists & Millions of Baby boomer retirements to visit/live here,
7) 230 miles of 80 foot wide section of Oregon land gone forever,
8) LNG gas is over 2 times more expensive then what's presently used by Oregon citizens.
Add it up Oregon citizens & you'll see why every poll taken (Even Oregon's Dept of Energy says NO) is against this LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove!
Quiet Observer wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:53 PM:
Last year, Northwest Natural paid $573,460 in property taxes in Lincoln County for schools, community college, public safety and the like, and a significant portion of that was for the LNG facility. Might want to review Newport's experience.
Common Sense wrote on Oct 30, 2008 8:03 AM:
Comparing Home Depot & any other like kind of business to this LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove is like comparing a rifle to an Atom bomb!
Home Depot is a non risky, safe, non polluter, producing alot of jobs that locals can be hired for!
LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove is a risky, unsafe, air polluter, that will take 80 foot wide section of land away from 400 Oregon citizens! Having a LNG ship (Having a known 2 mile burn zone) traveling within 1/2 mile of populated area here (Affecting 17,000 people's safety) & delivery LNG to Jordan Cove on a regular basis. Finally, due to job requirements, no local will qualify for!
Bottomline: Home Depot is needed to improve life to local areas (Products & Jobs) & LNG SCAM at Jordan Cove is not needed (NO jobs, air polluter & LNG being over 2 times more expensive then the natural gas used by Oregon citizens now)!
Kari wrote on Oct 29, 2008 3:55 PM:
Let me see I-5, powerlines, natural gas lines that is what runs this county. I guess calling you all CAVE poeple is not far off. How do you feel about Pakistan I hear they have some really nice caves there.
So Life Long, you're in favor of a businessman coming here and taking homeowners' land for his own profit?
You don't talk like a commie, I'm surprised.
life long resident wrote on Oct 29, 2008 12:24 PM:
CB Citizen wrote on Oct 29, 2008 11:21 AM:
Kari wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:44 AM:
You're okay with that, huh?
For 39 (maybe) jobs at Jordon Cove?
life long resident wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:41 AM:
The fact of the matter is that the people opposed to this project are for the most part opposed to everything. They keep on saying that we deserve better well if you have better let us see it. The statement "we deserve better" is the same as when I tell my kids "we'll see" I think that if this group that opposes everything really wanted to be part of the solution they would be for the LNG project. Instead the are just road blocks to progress and think that money grows on trees. Oh maybe that is why they oppose logging too!!!
Odotter wrote on Oct 29, 2008 10:34 AM:
The bottom line is that the people of Coos Bay need to throw off these wags and send them howling back to where they came from.
Thomas wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:27 AM:
That said, there has never been a worse idea for our economy, environment, and community's future well-being than putting an LNG terminal in the heart of Coos Bay; period.
As to FERC's behavior, at least their failure to show-up accruately reflects this whole undemocratic process designed to shove LNG on us regardless of whether we properly appreciate the promoter's Dog&Pony show farces.
Life long Citizen wrote on Oct 29, 2008 7:26 AM:
North Bend was but one of those many cutbacks. Of course, they used whatever available clause in their "contracts" to effect their withdrawal. In this case the water run-off.
Pontificating some evil connection with anti-growth dummies which does not exist, greatly diminishes your credibility.
Using falsehoods to make your case is the same as lying. Get it?
Ignorance is Bliss wrote on Oct 28, 2008 7:52 PM:
Math Major wrote on Oct 28, 2008 7:48 PM:
You must have gone to school here locally to add up your results! Did you read the article? Many people, the wise ones, are opposed.
eugene wrote on Oct 28, 2008 6:40 PM:
ANOTHER LONG TIME CITIZEN wrote on Oct 28, 2008 4:11 PM:
California Resident wrote on Oct 28, 2008 4:03 PM:
More of the same from this lng scam wrote on Oct 28, 2008 3:11 PM:
Jane wrote on Oct 28, 2008 3:07 PM:
coos bay native wrote on Oct 28, 2008 1:59 PM:
Long time citizen wrote on Oct 28, 2008 1:31 PM:





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