Questions focus on safety, jobs, environment

By Alexander Rich, Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 23, 2008 | 42 comment(s)

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NORTH BEND — What was designed as a town-hall meeting to discuss the implications of building a liquefied natural gas terminal on Coos Bay’s North Spit devolved into a contest of sorts.

One group of audience members asked “worst-case scenario” questions: What would happen if an LNG tanker spilled its cargo? What if there isn’t any demand for natural gas?

Others asked about the project positives: How many jobs will be created in the area? How much tax revenue will be generated by the construction of an LNG terminal?

Some derided the project’s presenters as snake-oil salesmen, while supporters offered to shift the pipeline route so it would cross their land.

The project, at its earliest, would begin construction this time next year, and wouldn’t start operations until 2012. The more than 100 people who attended Monday’s meeting seemed to suggest interest in the issue hasn’t subsided after a long period with few public meetings.

Safety and environmental concerns were the chief issues for opponents, while economic benefits were what supporters asked about.

Beverly Segner, of Coos Bay, elicited the most vivid response of the evening when she asked what would happen if an accident occurred on an LNG tanker.

Frank Whipple, a safety consultant for Jordan Cove Energy Project, said the first thing that would happen is the LNG would hit the water and freeze it.

“It’s going to freeze the water to an ice cube,” he said. “Obviously any fish in the vicinity will be really cold.”

The LNG would essentially boil at air temperature, producing methane that could travel as far as three miles away, Whipple said. Though gas might travel that far, it would only be a safety concern if it is ignited. And in that case, the most severe area of concern would be within 500 meters or within one-third of a mile of the accident. Within that area, someone would have a chance of getting burned, he said, though Whipple noted that the 500-meter zone would generally not extend beyond the Coos Bay shoreline if the accident occurred in the shipping channel. People more than 500 meters from an accident could still get burned, though the risk decreases with greater distance, he said.

The likelihood of such an accident occurring is small, Whipple said. He noted that tankers are designed with several layers of steel containment to reduce the risk of accidents.

The same is true of pipelines, though the representatives of Pacific Connector had to explain about an accident on a pipeline in Virginia.

Earlier this month, the pipeline, which was buried in the mid-1950s, ruptured and the released gas ignited, said Barry Orgill operating director of Williams Northwest Pipeline, the proposed operator of the Pacific Connector. Five people were hurt, with three or four suffering second-degree burns. The incident is under investigation, Orgill said, though the company has ruled out the possibility a third party caused the accident.

Audience member Jon Barton asked whether newly constructed pipelines are safer and would be less likely to rupture than the Virginia pipeline. Williams Pacific Connector Project Manager Dan Lattin said they are safer, with new pipelines being coated on the inside and outside to prevent corrosion.

Some people attended the meeting to complain about the pipeline going through their property. Originally, Pacific Connector planned to route its 230-mile pipeline through Glasgow Heights, but opposition from residents led the company to change course and propose a route underneath Coos Bay. When the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission released the draft environmental impact statement last month, it recommended a third route — over land, but through less populated areas and avoiding Glasgow.

Lattin said the principal reason for the change was due to the discovery of Indian archeological fishing weir sites along the underwater route. He also noted federal agencies were concerned about the impacts on aquatic resources during construction.

Pacific Connector representatives said they will send information to landowners who would be affected by the new route within the next week.

Jordan Cove Project Manager Bob Braddock took a variety of questions regarding everything from the hometowns of workers (two-thirds of Jordan Cove employees will be hired from Oregon) to the placement of a fire station on the North Spit (at least 55 feet above the waterline).

In response to questions about the LNG terminal being built in an Enterprise Zone, he noted that the company would pay taxes every year. The first year the company would pay $2 million before escalating up to $10 million by the fourth year.

He also noted that Jordan Cove has been paying Coos County $25,000 a month for use of the county’s pipeline. Braddock said the construction of the LNG terminal would require about 1,000 workers. The team leading the construction project will be announced in about three weeks, he said.



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Sally from Empire wrote on Oct 4, 2008 7:55 AM:

I live near the bay & I don't want these Lng moving/floating bombs ready to explode ships coming within a 1/2 mile of me here! They are eye sores along with the structure at Jordan Cove anyways! I really feel for the Oregon residents that will be forced to sell their property to foreign nonresident people just so a 36 inch pipe can go through it on it's 230 mile route to Northern California, just so they can get the gas! Go Jane!!!

Charleston resident wrote on Oct 4, 2008 7:47 AM:

Us fishermen here are 100% against Lng at Jordan Cove due to interfering with our way of life fishing and it's big time safety issues that will never go away. I agree, everyman obviously is connected to this Lng project somehow by him posting so much in favor of it, but it is funny how weak he argues for it though!

everyman wrote on Oct 3, 2008 4:28 PM:

Nanny-nanny, boo-boo...I'm rubber, you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you!!

(I thought I would communicate at your level since you refuse to answer my questions)

Toothless Cajun wrote on Oct 3, 2008 1:37 PM:

Everyman is not me. However, at least there is one who can see the difference between Hillbilly Savants pickin & grinnin on the 101 waivin to da millions of turists & boommers speeding through & a person who does not feel intimidated by the potential advancement of his fellow neighbor by the progressive opportunity for growth in a small impoverished town. Why care about anyone else as long as I got mine...Right? Open your eyes, no jobs & poverty is unappealing to the tourist & Boomer.

Dave from NB wrote on Oct 3, 2008 11:57 AM:

Jane,

Your logic makes sense & not sure what everyman is saying or trying to prove by his double talk, half truths, etc etc in here (It's like an adult discussing something with a small child, where the small child just doesn't understand due to their inexperience of debating correctly)? Keep up the good work, since I don't know anyone that supports this project at Jordan Cove!

Who thinks toothless cayun everyman are the same wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:08 AM:

Both make little sense & obviously going to profit from this useless Lng at Jordan Cove that Oregon doesn't need!

Jane wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:04 AM:

This LNG SCAM can & will be rejected due to NOT being issued the necessary land permits sorry! Right now it's in appeal in LUBA due to MANY issues, main one is the 2002 DLCD Tsunami zone engineering requirements that it didn't meet or address at the County level 1st time through due to John GOODOLDEBOY Griffth that has since been voted OUT! Get the facts & you won't say ridiculous things in here!

Again, 60 outsiders getting the jobs at Jordan Cove vs the thousands of tourists & Millions of Baby Boomers not wanting to visit or live here is ridiculous weak failed argument!

everyman wrote on Oct 3, 2008 9:03 AM:

Jane...please...answer my questions with answers...not questions...

I will answer your non-answers, howvwer 1 - Then don't buy any and let it fail
2 - There aren't millions of baby boomers just chomping at the bit to move here...but there are likely thousands of tourists...who could probably care less about an LNG facility
3 - Very
4 - The law you refer to was enacted to provide federal oversight to an indusrty with intra-state activities...thus the need for federal legislation...

And finally...Jane, I don't dislike you...I actually am glad you keep posting on here, since I can only occasionally make it to the public meetings...I just wish you would keep your comments civil...

Toothless Cajun wrote on Oct 2, 2008 5:11 PM:

Jane,
60 jobs is 60 new families. That is 60 new homeowners. That is at least $720,000 a year spent in our town. That is future opportunity for our youth to choose to stay here to work with a career that would not be available otherwise. It is called growth. It will enable a power supply for additional growth. It is what the people here need. If you want someone around to change your Depends, then there better be employment opportunities for the other family members. Drop the me first everyone else second attitude. It is very annoying. One other thing, IT IS COMING AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! he he...

Jane wrote on Oct 2, 2008 3:24 PM:

Everyman, here's your answers:

1) I don't know anyone in Oregon that wants to pay higher monthly gas bills which would happen if LNG is used in Oregon!

2) Comparing 60 outsiders spending their money here vs thousands of tourists & Millions of Baby Boomers not wanting to visit/live is ridiculous!

3) Let's keep to the LNG subject, how manageable is it if a LNG ship having a known 2 mile hazard burn zone explodes within 1/2 mile distance of populated area? How manageable is 36 inch pipe exploding along a 230 mile distance surrounded by forests of 80 foot Pine trees?

4) MANY other places besides California (Remember only 6 have been placed in the USA) have rejected LNG & that's why the Republican party passed the 2005 Federal law over ruling individual state's right to accept or reject placement of LNG storage units!

everyman wrote on Oct 2, 2008 1:31 PM:

Please answer these questions, Jane:

1 - Why do you care how much it costs? If you don't like it, don't buy it.

2 - Will the employees pay taxes, shop, eat, live and educate thier kids, locally?

3 - Is it possible to handle dangerous and flammable substances (like gasoline) in such a way that it significantly reduces the liklihood of incident?

And finally 4 - Since when should we, as Oregonians, make any decision based on what Californians have or haven't done?

Please answer these questions, Jane, and please do it without yelling "LNG SCAM", "BOB BRADDOCKS CHEERLEADER", "RICH FOREIGNERS", "BURN ZONE", "CON MEN" or any of your usual stuff...if possible.

Jane wrote on Oct 2, 2008 9:11 AM:

Toothless Cajun,

I learned long ago, only 2 things that you can't teach someone:

1) Common Sense &

2) Drive to succeed in life

I rolled up my sleeves at the age of 15 & it didn't matter where I lived to succeed, because if there is a will there's a way!

P.S. I think you said it all, agreeing anyone wanting this LNG SCAM on a beautiful coast of Oregon producing 60 jobs that no local will qualify for, with all it's HUGE safety risks, along with discouraging thousands of tourists & MILLIONS of baby boomer retirements has to be an Village Idiot!

Toothless Cajun wrote on Oct 1, 2008 8:07 PM:

Jane
Struck a nerve did I? Give me a break about rolling up your sleeves. You never had easier money in your life when you factor in the past eight years. You are telling me because you invested you are entitled to something? Oh contraire my dear. MANY took advantage & stepped upon many a people to achieve such status. You really think 15% capital gains is working hard? There lies the problem with the financially privileged. They believe that they are above all the "Village Idiots". They deserve it. Look around, your entitlement is soon to end because of the brazen arrogance & greed amongst your crowd. No one is immune, even the ones who want to stick their heads in the sand in denial. Why care as long as I got mine, RIGHT?

Jane wrote on Oct 1, 2008 7:05 AM:

Toothless Cajun,

IF you re-read my post, I said the following, quote:

"IF Oregon needs industrial then place them away from tourist attractions like the coast, Crater Lake etc. & place them inland somewhere visitors wouldn't want to visit! Keep Oregon beautiful & economic prosperity is just around the corner"

The so-called financially privileged had to roll up their sleeves to earn & invest that money to get where they are! One thing you & MANY here forget, Oregon has 2 MAJOR things going for it Timber & Tourist places (Biggest is the Coast, then Crater Lake, Mt Hood, etc) & you have to be an village idiot to ruin those places PERIOD!

Toothless Cajun wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:11 PM:

Jane,
PS
5X bigger? You must be counting the illegal aliens that they flooded the place with to do all the building. & now the financially privileged have filled their pockets with cash, leaving the blue collar & white collar crime for YOU to pay for. REALLY, what is your true agenda? JANE

Toothless Cajun wrote on Sep 30, 2008 8:04 PM:

PSSSST!!!

Dear Jane,

Arizona? As in Phoenix? Surely all those Boomers & tourists would not be going there for the great restaurants & resorts? You know like Z-Tejas, P.F Changs, Phoenician or even a dump like Desert mountain. Why would they do such a thing? They have the Palo Verde Nuclear plant just outside of town. You know, that REALLY TERRIBLE DANGEROUS utility that makes people in Phoenix glow within 20 minutes of an awful accident & then ruins the land for over a hundred years. That nasty place that has infrastructure that can support places like Intel & Allied Signal & Raytheon & McDonnell Douglas OR THE MAYO CLINIC? But that's OK because they have Bimbos TOO. Even ones with all their teeth! Oh my god, I don't think that could withstand an earthquake of 9.3 either. But not to worry, people care about Phoenix & they will be the first that get help. RESEARCH IT!!! get a clue...

Jane wrote on Sep 30, 2008 11:34 AM:

Toothless Cajun,

Sorry, but NICE places like Hawaii, Florida, even deserts like Arizona & New Mexico do extremely well with tourists & Baby Boomer retirements! They draw MILLIONS a year that spend their money which supports EVERY business that's there! Pheonix, Arizona for example has grown over 5X bigger in the last 10 yrs & it's just a flat dry hot desert, but tourists fly in & rent a car & drive to see what Arizona has to offer such as the Grand Canyon. Sorry but industrial like this LNG SCAM is NOT the future of Oregon, because it would prevent this place to attract future tourists/Baby Boomers from visiting/living here! This LNG SCAM is a 1/2 step forward & 3 steps backwards for economic prosperity, because Oregon needs to have a win win situation here, keep it beautiful & attract good clean business's like Time share places, Big chain stores, non polluting industrial businesses etc. IF Oregon needs industrial then place them away from tourist attractions like the coast, Crater Lake etc. & place them inland somewhere visitors wouldn't want to visit! Keep Oregon beautiful & economic prosperity is just around the corner!

Toothless Cajun wrote on Sep 30, 2008 9:57 AM:

Shoot yourself in the foot again! You squandered your opportunity for a Home Depot. Don't you people ever learn? Why is it that the Tribe is the only organization that displays competence around here? Retired boomers like the creature comforts that a progressive small town environment can provide. Progressive requires infrastructure. The foundation to grow an economy from. To this point you have nothing to offer. Why can't you keep Dr's working here? Because you have nothing to offer. There has to be something to motivate them to stay other than the need to provide for a poverty ridden community. Your inability to look around & realize that Coos Bay is expendable is a testament to your ignorance. "What if there is a eeearthquaaake or Tsuuunaaamiii"? No one cares! You are on your own! Research it! Give them a reason to care. You can hardly keep an airline servicing this area. Make this place more than just a bunch of myopic puppets controlled by a few family's who have profited off of your inability to realize it. You have been manipulated for generations & don't even realize it. WAKE UP!

ME2 wrote on Sep 27, 2008 9:39 AM:

I vote no LNG. OH!! That's right I along with the rest of you don't get a vote. Great job politicians representing your constituents

Dave from NB wrote on Sep 26, 2008 12:34 PM:

Not sure why or what everyman is preaching in here, but his logic is sure backwards, examples:

He says this project is worth it, because 60 jobs givin to outsiders that would move here to spend their money here, but would discourage the 700,000 presently visiting Oregon & the millions of Baby boomers that are starting to retire now?

He agree Lng is more expensive then natural gas used today by Oregon citizens, but he says who cares & let the market decide?

He admits this project is unsafe but manageable? How will a 9.0 + Earthquake, 100 ft Tsunami or Lng ships having a 2 mile hazard zone or will be within 1/2 mile of populated area here be manageable if it blows UP?

I agree he's getting Slaughtered!

everyman wrote on Sep 26, 2008 11:00 AM:

Slaughtered? Really?


I thought I was doing so well...

I mean, no one ever really addresses my points, answers my questions, or says anything but the same taunts over and over and then calls me names because I simply don't agree with what they call "facts"...

Some of them even post under my name on here with stuff they know I would never say.

But I'm getting slaughtered, huh?...

I agree with Common Sense wrote on Sep 26, 2008 7:12 AM:

Alot risks with little to gain makes this project at Jordan Cove unwise & I'm totally against it! I don't believe a word these foreign people say, because they'll say anything & everything to get this unwanted/unneeded expensive Lng here, since California has rejected every time presented there! Obviously everyman needs to take a class or two on how to debate successfully with someone, because he's getting slaughtered by everyone!

No voteNo LNG wrote on Sep 26, 2008 6:43 AM:

Anything that affects every person living here so much should be on a ballot before it is shoved down everyone's throat.

These meetings are just charades.

everyman wrote on Sep 25, 2008 4:11 PM:

Dear Common Sense...

Millions of Baby boomers...moving to Coos Bay???? Reeeeeaaaaallllyy....(Hmm, current population x 40...so a pop explosion of roughly 4000%)

2x more expensive...ok. More expensive now dosen't mean it always will be...not to mention that the reason they will be building a pipeline is to send it somewhere that it might not be more expensive...Starbucks is more expensive than Folgers, and you see how that has gone...anyways, let the market decide...who died and made you Stalin?

So now the "danger" angle is that we will be burning down our forests, huh? Common, if lightning stikes in the middle of the forest...IT"S GOING TO BURN DOWN ANYWAY, WITH OR WITHOUT A PIPELINE!

If this is nonsense, and nonsense is a crime, then chain me to the wall...

Everyman

Common Sense wrote on Sep 25, 2008 3:11 PM:

Another nonsense post by Bob Braddock's #1 cheerleader everyman because:

1) How many Tourist/baby boomers retirements (Thousands to Millions) won't come here if they hear LNG is here?

Answer: All of them, because they want to move away from industrial places & cities. So Oregon gains 60 outsiders moving in vs Millions not wanting to move here!

2) I don't know any Oregon citizen wanting to pay DOUBLE on their next gas bill (IF LNG is used here)!

3) LNG ships have KNOWN 2 mile burn zone & will be traveling with 1/2 mile of populated area here! 230 miles of pipeline that could rupture & cause MASSIVE forest fire by simple spark of lightening strike! How safe is this? Answer: NOT SAFE

everyman wrote on Sep 25, 2008 12:23 PM:

1 - Will the people woking there live here? Then it's a local job (taxes paid locally, income spent locally, children educated locally)

2 - Cost of LNG....who cares? Most Oregonians can't afford to buy a Bently either, but if a plant opened up for one around here, it would be great! Oregon ships lumber all over the world, and that seems to have been pretty good to us in the past.

3 - Safety...LNG oversight is ginormous, and will only get tighter as alternative energy sources become more used. There is risk, but it is manageable...I don't here anyone complaining when a gas truck drives by thier house...talk about flamamble...

I think I'm to the end of my 200 words...EVERYMAN SMASH!

Bob Braddock and his cheerleaders at the dog and pony show wrote on Sep 25, 2008 9:02 AM:

I agree with Jane, I was at the meeting & NOT impressed at all! They did not discuss the real issues & sugar coated or lied about the rest! Oregon leaders would be selling out Oregon citizens for a few extra tax dollars, if they allow this SCAM here with all it's risks! Even Oregon's Dept of Energy's says Lng was twice as expensive, that Oregon citizens would pay more if Lng was used here & how Oregon didn't need Lng!)! I'm still waiting on con man Bob's response to the appeal in LUBA on the 2002 DLCD requirements of Oregon's Tsunami hazard zone), since one meeting last year con man Bob said this would withstand a 9.3 earthquake, but when asked for the engineering drawings, he didn't have them with him to prove it! Also, he won't hire any locals, because the standard in the industry of Lng is high in education & experience requirements & he's just trying to con this area on needed jobs they won't get! I notice alot of Bob's "friends" posting in here, since they have little to offer (NO Facts) to any discussion on Lng in supporting it!

truthordare wrote on Sep 24, 2008 4:55 PM:

Everyman: Without this turning into a mutual admiration society...I have always been upset over ad hominem responses to any individual's comments, whether for or against. With something like the lng facility there are passionate views dearly held by both proponents and opponents. Personal attacks do nothing but stir up muck and cloud the issues. Here's to clarity in thinking!

everyman wrote on Sep 24, 2008 2:00 PM:

Hey, truthordare...THANK YOU!! Thank you for your friendly response, your addressing my curiosity without beating me over the head with your opinions on the issue!

I wish everyone on BOTH sides of the issue would address each other with the respect you have shown in your post...again, thank you..


I also need to apologize for my previous post to flipfloper...You did not attack me and you did not yell...my previous post to you was too harsh, and I really am sorry.

truthordare wrote on Sep 24, 2008 1:08 PM:

Everyman: You're question is very timely; but not attending the q&a session, I don't know the answer. I do know during the early stages of the lng facility proposal Mr. Braddock said if there was strong local opposition, the lng facility would not be built. Apparently, local opposition was not strong enough to meet his threshold. As for the Bradwood Landing lng facility, FERC approved the project, with over a hundred conditions; but the facility still needs to pass some state land use hurdles. Mr. Braddock has said if any other facility gets approved and built first, then the Jordan Cove project is dead because Oregon and the lng market can support only one facility. With his record, Mr. Braddock will probably find a loophole for that, too. I apologize in advance for being a cynic.

everyman wrote on Sep 24, 2008 11:47 AM:

To Flipfloper (I think you meant "flipflopper, but anyway...)

This Q&A session was with private industry, not the governor...

Honestly, until Jordan Cove is a few more steps down the line, development and approval-wise, asking Gov K anything is like shoveling the sidewalk while its still snowing...

This forum is about the Q&A session...not the railroad, not the governor...

The question to ask is whatever question I want to, dang it....so please get out of my face with all the yelling and personal attacks

Ned wrote on Sep 24, 2008 5:34 AM:

How does LNG pollute the air?

flipfloper wrote on Sep 23, 2008 10:53 PM:

MR. EVERYMAN:
The question to be asked is Mr. Governor, why do you say that you oppose the LNG terminal and then tell your political appointee port of Coos Bay commissioners to get the site on the North Spit? And, while you are at it, where is that $50 million for the railroad coming from?

SO FAR wrote on Sep 23, 2008 8:01 PM:

To all who believe in this project,

I have shares of Lehman Bros. that are for sale at a very good price. Interested in buying them.

esya wrote on Sep 23, 2008 7:41 PM:

I think we all have to consider not just safety and jobs, but what the heck this nation is going to do about our energy demands. Even most of the clothes we wear are made from petroleum products, the packaging we use on all our food, the household items we buy for our children--all plastics. We either have to give up all that and save energy for fuel or we have to allow nuclear or coal burning or oil fields or offshore drilling or lumbering or something. What's it gonna be folks? Hitchhiking in the rain?

Kaye wrote on Sep 23, 2008 5:11 PM:

I used to be against it, but I have to say I was swept away by the alarmists and naysayers.
I have come to this area 15 years ago, and it's beautiful, but people are such whiners and not-in-my-backyardigans.
I am sick and tired of the surprised questions, why in the dickens did we move here, as in the eyes of the locals this place seems to be the pits.
I like it here, and I am proud of this area for many reasons, have some local pride. New industries open new paths into the future, and the pipeline that blew was over 50 years old. Safety standards have improved since then

Kay Wigely wrote on Sep 23, 2008 4:25 PM:

Sounds great, bring it on!

Hmmm wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:47 PM:

Question for Jane: How do you know that "No local will qualify for any of the jobs.."??

Edward wrote on Sep 23, 2008 1:12 PM:

I don't think Jane was taking notes at the meeting...IF she was even there. Your posts are ridiculous and couldn't be farther from what was discussed last night.

WandaJ wrote on Sep 23, 2008 12:09 PM:

Elect people in November who will either stand for or aginst this project. We know where the mayor candidates stand, what about the council candidates. No more people without backbone.

Jane wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:43 AM:

I guess NOW Oregon citizens know the TRUTH as the following:

1) Structure at Jordan Cove will NOT meet DLCD 2002 Tsunami zone reqrmts (Appealed decision of county & LUBA of ignoring DLCD 2002 engineering reqrmts).

2) UNSafe situation of LNG ships having a known 2 mile hazard burn zone & traveling within a 1/2 mile of populated area here.

3) California & many areas have rejected LNG for being a air polluter.

4) LNG is 2X more expensive then natural gas used today by Oregon citizens.

5) How Oregon citizens will be FORCED to sell their land to foreign investors.

6) How explosion in Appomattox County, VA could happen here & how explosion at Jordan Cove structure or LNG ship would be MUCH worse (Miles instead yards).

7) How LNG ship will have negative effect on fishing boats & NEW Airport flights.

8) How no local will qualify for any of the jobs at Jordan Cove.

This LNG SCAM is not worth the little tax money collected from vs HUGH risks involved! I was there & these "CON" men avoided the above REAL issues of this SCAM!

everyman wrote on Sep 23, 2008 11:36 AM:

Did anyone ask where the Jordan Cove project now stands in relation to the other 2 LNG terminals proposed for Oregon? It seems that Jordan Cove may end up being a day late and a dollar short...


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