Feds: Size of LNG hazard zones is safe

Font Size:  Default font size  Large font size 

By Alexander Rich, Staff Writer
Monday, July 28, 2008 | 72 comment(s)

A new federal report finds that larger liquefied natural gas tankers won’t require larger hazard zones than those in place for existing carriers.

The study, conducted by the U.S. Department of Energy and released Friday, suggests larger LNG ships would leak fuel at a greater rate and have hotter, longer-burning fires in the event of an accident. But researchers still believe the most significant danger to people nearby would remain within the hazard zones established in the 2004 Sandia LNG report.

The study focused on ships capable of carrying as much as 265,000 cubic meters of LNG. It determined that spills would have thermal radiation zones 7 to 8 percent greater than those for existing carriers. The estimates were based on a tanker suffering a five cubic meter breach at a near-shore operation like the one proposed by Jordan Cove Energy Project for Coos Bay’s North Spit. The local project is proposing to use tankers that carry between 135,000 and 148,000 cubic meters.

The report determined that even with the added heat source, a 256,000 cubic meter LNG tanker still would be a serious threat to people within 500 meters and a significant threat to a distance of about a mile.

The study also determined that a vapor dispersion cloud for a larger ship  could cover an area between 1.7 and 2 miles. It noted that it would be unlikely for a cloud to grow to such a size, however, since the fuel would probably start burning from a spark at the breach site before a cloud could get that big. The concern about a cloud is that it would eventually ignite and damage a wider area.

The new findings won’t impact the Jordan Cove project as proposed, though it would play into the energy company’s future plans.

Although the slip proposed for the North Spit could berth a 217,000 cubic meter LNG tanker, there are no immediate plans to do so, said Jordan Cove Project Manager Bob Braddock.

Braddock said the company has requested approval from the U.S. Coast Guard to run ships with tanks as large as 148,000 cubic meters. He said it was possible ships with 160,000 tanks could call on Coos Bay, but anything larger would require the deepening of the Coos Bay shipping channel. And any ship with tanks larger than 148,000 cubic meters would need to be approved by the U.S. Coast Guard with the new Sandia findings in mind, Braddock said.

He does not anticipate having those discussions any time soon.

“We don’t see the very largest ship being optimal for the route,” Braddock said.

Larger vessels are primarily used for long-distance routes with large import terminals, such as those between the Middle East and the Gulf Coast, he said.

Braddock said he hadn’t read the report, though he wasn’t surprised by the findings.

Neither was LNG opponent Jody McCaffree, who has insisted that LNG tankers are clearly a risk within the first mile of an accident.

“This report just kind of confirmed for me what the scientists have been saying all along,” the North Bend woman said. “The more that is spilled out, the bigger the hazard.”

She did question the finding somewhat, saying tests are based on the behavior of smaller amounts of LNG and then calculated to larger figures.

“The thing is they don’t really know,” McCaffree said.

The study used a solid flame model to determine the behavior of a fire following an LNG tanker breach. It did not create a fire of the magnitude associated with such an incident, though one is in the planning stages.

Braddock said the Department of Energy has proposed a larger scale test later this year that would simulate attacks on an LNG container ship.

(Staff writer Alexander Rich covers Coos Bay issues for The World. He can be reached by calling 269-1222, ext. 234; or by e-mailing to arich@theworld-link.com.)
Sandia lab assesses LNG safety


What: Sandia National Laboratories completed an update report on impacts of spills involving larger liquefied natural gas tankers.


Where: The Sandia laboratories are in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore, Calif. They are operated by Sandia Corp., a Lockheed Martin Co., for the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Nuclear Security Administration.


When: The study was released Friday by the Department of Energy.


What’s staying the same: The federally calculated hazard zones remain valid.


What’s changed: Damaged tankers carrying as much as 265,000 cubic meters of LNG would spill LNG more quickly and that could result in a larger gas cloud.
Previous Email this story to yourself or a friend Print this story

Have you checked out The World Link Forums?

Comments

The comments above are from users of theworldlink.com and do not necessarily represent the views of The World or Lee Enterprises. Participation Guidelines

Note: There is a maximum of 200 words per comment. If you wish to post more, please visit our forum.
Comment Policy

The World welcomes your comments about stories, and we encourage a robust dialogue on this site. All comments must meet reasonable standards of decency and civility.

Please follow these basic rules:

  • No defamatory comments about individuals or businesses.
  • No deliberately false information.
  • No obscenity or racially offensive language.
  • No harassment, verbal abuse, threats or personal attacks.
  • No information that invades another person's privacy.
  • No business solicitations or charitable solicitations.
Comments that violate these standards will not be posted. Users with repeated violations may be banned from future posting.

Comments will be approved throughout the day during business hours. After hours and weekend comments may not appear until the following business day. It may take a couple of hours before comments are approved.

The World generally does not edit comments, but we reserve the right to edit any comment that does not meet our standards.

Close Guidelines

Cheniere Sabine Pass LNG wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:48 PM:

http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2008/04/21/story7.html

This was to be the big success story...one shipment, stocks plummet, investors bailing. It just opened in April and now laid off over half its workers.

Dave from NB wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:46 PM:

Kinda pathetic for anyone like everyman to clown around & be like a child looking for attention in here on a serious issue like this Lng! Have to agree with some of the other posters in here, he must be getting something out of this ($$$) by posting so much! Looks like this two mile hazard zone isn't too safe to me also, especially if you live anywhere near the coast or bay! Keep up the good work on getting rid of this expensive fossel fuel that Oregon doesn't need!

Common Sense wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:09 AM:

Sorry Everyman,

This issue is SERIOUS to thousands near the coast/bay & many people that will be forced to sell their land so a 36 inch LNG pipe will go through their property, just so California can get the gas! Your humor is childish & NOT appreciated by the majority of this area & Oregon itself, because we can see this California LNG SCAM is useless to Oregon! Obviously you are going to profit from this somehow or why else would you post in here so often with so little to offer (ZERO facts) in support of this SCAM? Pretty obvious to anyone with ANY common sense on what you are trying to do dude!

As far as the World Newspaper is concerned it obviously it meant what it said or why didn't it retract or issue a follow up explaining it made a false & misleading title statement? Obviously, someone is paying off someone behind the scenes here in supporting this SCAM that even Oregon's Dept of Energy says "LNG is not needed in Oregon"!

everyman wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:32 AM:

Ok, regarding the title of this article; I am no big fan of the world, but I think what they meant, is not that the 2 mile zone is safe WITHIN the zone, but that the 2 mile burn zone is ADEQUATE, and dosen't need to be enlarged for the larger capacity carriers. Maybe they couldn't fit the word "adequate" in the headline, but whatever the reason, just read the article, and you'll understand why they aren't saying it's safe IN that zone.

Now, regarding me; I can only tell you the following;
1 - I work in an industry totally unrelated to the LNG industry and am not involved in local politics

2 - I, for OBVIOUS reasons, will not reveal my name in a forum.

3 - In previous posts, I have explained my viewpoint, and the facts as I see them, but try to have fun doing so

4 - And finally, I ONLY post as Everyman, instead of posting under different names and yelling the same viewpoint (as some others do).

Everyman out.

PS - You take your dog to the bathroom with you...ewwww.

World newspaper two mile burn zone is not safe wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:18 AM:

Let me get this straight, a Lng ship passes by within a 1/2 mile of shore delivering Lng to storage units at Jordan Cove, if it catches fire & blows up, it will produce a 2 mile BURN zone (Gets so hot it can melt metal), thousands of people within that 2 mile BURN zone & you (World newspaper) say this is SAFE??? Who's paying you off (Bob Braddock, The Mayor of CB, etc), because it's obviously not safe!

Who thinks everyman is looking for attention (Has little to offer with facts in support of this Lng SCAM) or is going to profit from this Lng SCAM (Supporting this Lng SCAM without no logical reason to do so, thus going to make money off of it) or maybe BOTH?

Nomdplume wrote on Aug 4, 2008 7:42 PM:

It's sad that bozo's like EVERYMAN can hide bhind a screen name and contribute nothing to any intelligent discussion. I sang your song in the bathroom and my dog howled.

everyman wrote on Aug 4, 2008 1:47 PM:

I am not a "hit man" kay.

I am not a "shill".

I am not an employee of Bob Braddock, or Bob Braddock himself, or a friend of Bob Braddock.

Who am I?

(Cue my theme music)

I'm EVERYMAN!

PS - Any requests?

Wait a minute nothing safe about this two mile burn zone wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 AM:

What's up World newspaper, I just read this article & there was no mention of anything being safe about this 2 mile burn zone? What I've about this is the heat gets so hot it actually does melt metal also, thus how could it be "safe"? These Lng ships would be within a 1/2 mile of shore, thus how could it be "safe"? There will be many people (Probably in the thousands) within this 2 mile burn of every Lng ship that comes here also, thus how could it be "safe"?

Not sure what would be worse, empty new airport, Port commissioner's ownership of a rail line or this Lng SCAM, because ALL 3 are totally negative to the area!

Wait a minute wrote on Aug 4, 2008 9:06 AM:

Golden Pass LNG in Sabine Pass Texas is not to be OPENED and operational until 2009
http://www.goldenpasslng.com/news_article.cfm?articleid=108

LNG is the next ENRON wrote on Aug 3, 2008 10:07 PM:

LNG is the next ENRON
LOOK at Sabine Pass - 1st US LNG terminal built a FEW months ago, and only 1 shipload and now NOTHING!!!!!!

These terminals cannot get their supply until they are somewhat approved by FERC. Supply use to be 20 year contracts. In the last year, suppliers have broken contracts i.e. Iran with India, and now do short term contracts because the prices keep going UP. They even divert ships if another country will pay more for the gas. This terminal could get built, our neighbors' land robbed from them, and it could get moth-balled like the 3 terminals that were built on the East Coast in the 80's.

Jane wrote on Aug 1, 2008 1:19 PM:

Everyman,

This 1.7 - 2.0 mile zone is a BURN zone, since if a ship catches fire & blows up, everything within that space would burn/melt things like metal! Do your homework on this important issue that will NOT benefit Oregon, unless you are Bob Braddock & California, since Oregon's dept of Energy says Oregon citizen's gas bill would go up, if this LNG SCAM came here to be used & concluded LNG is "Not needed in Oregon"! How is Bob these days, besides VERY worried about the LUBA road block that will take YEARS to over come the many issues to fix!

Kay wrote on Aug 1, 2008 1:19 PM:

Third times the charm:

Methinks Everyman is here to drive away any and all criticism of our town "leaders". This started a few weeks ago. Hit man job.
You're good everyman, really good.
Don't let this hit man and his attitude run you off folks, this business community is trying to squelch public dissatisfaction, plain and simple. They've had enough of you unwashed masses messin in their business.

My Gawd today's front page has two articles about Tuna Man, one about Disney, what the heck is news?

Will end my world subscription unless wrote on Aug 1, 2008 1:09 PM:

I'm getting tired of the World newspaper printing false & misleading titles myself. Unless it stops soon, I'll be cancelling my subscription to this paper forever. No newspaper should be creating biased titles on quoted sources & I've noticed the World has done this several times on many issues besides this Lng issue! The word "safe" is not even used in this quoted Federal Government report, thus it's pathetic & wrong to place that word on the title of this article!

everyman wrote on Aug 1, 2008 9:48 AM:

(TO THE TUNE OF "FLIPPER")

THEY CALL IT; BURN ZONE, BURN ZONE, IT SOUNDS REAL FRIGHTNING

NOT LIKELY TO HAPPEN, LIKE GETTING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING

THEY CALL IT BURN ZONE, BURN ZONE, JUST SAY IT MORE LOUDLY

AND WE'LL RUN OFF ALL BUSINESS, AND WE'LL DO IT REAL PROUDLY...

No where did it say this two mile burn zone is safe wrote on Aug 1, 2008 9:12 AM:

The editor & anyone that approved this title of this article should be FIRED for publicly printing false & misleading titles of any quoted stories from any source! No where did the Federal Government say this 2 mile BURN zone was safe, because they know it is NOT safe on why this report was created in the first place! The World newspaper should acknowledge they made a BAD mistake to it's readers SOON!

fourty five jobs filled by outsides vs two mile burn zone wrote on Aug 1, 2008 8:08 AM:

Such a deal, this area gets 45 jobs filled by outsiders due to high job requirements that no local could meet and this area gets a UNSAFE 2 mile burn zone every time a Lng ship arrives, just so California can get this expensive gas. Anyone supporting this idea has to be an village idiot or profiting from this, because it makes no sense whatsoever! Wish these foreign rich person would find some place like New Orleans or another run down dirty place to try their SCAM of a plan!

HA wrote on Jul 31, 2008 5:12 PM:

okay.. i just gotta say it, shoot me if you must... i LOVE everyman. Thanks for making things amusing. I'll hold you if the others won't!

I used to be very pro LNG, now i'm to the point of just make a flippin' decision about it already so i can stop looking at those horrid signs and stop reading about it.

Its more likely that your gas tank will explode as you're driving than the LNG getting you. For those that are so against LNG, find us another company that will bring 45 jobs to the area and i'll support that.

LNGTSS wrote on Jul 31, 2008 3:24 PM:

The LNG industry warns against siting an LNG terminal under the conditions at the Jordan Cove proposal. See the Society of International Gas Terminal and Tanker Operators (SIGTTO) publication, "Site Selection and Design for LNG Ports and Jetties."

Locating an LNG terminal on the outside of a bend in the waterway and where LNG vapors could affect civilian populations are two major problems that SIGTTO warns against. The reason: Such terminal siting, should a catastrophic event ever occur there -- however unlikely that might be -- would shut down the LNG industry. That would, in turn, have a disasterous effect on the US economy.

LNG developer and FERC irresponsibility is no excuse for violating industry knowledge that has accrued over decades of experience.

LNG Terminal Siting Standards Organization
www.LNGTSS.org

everyman wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:55 AM:

To Thomas, DR, and Jane (and all of your multiple personalities),

You are right. I am wrong. The sky realy is falling, LNG truly will bring the end of the world, and I'm...so...very...afraid.

Not only will LNG leave nothing more than a crater where CB/NB used to be, but it will also totally destroy the worlds entire ozone layer, corrupt the minds of our children, and destroy all life as we know it on the south coast...except for the snowy plover, which, since it's protected, will recieve all of the federal funding it need to survive here.

But you are all right...and as a result...I'm afraid, so afraid. Hold me, Jane...Hold me DR, hold me....

Sly Sloan wrote on Jul 31, 2008 8:05 AM:

Thanks EVERYMAN,
for sticking your neck out and saying what others have wanted to say for over a year.

Your research is appreciated.

I am not now, nor have I ever been paid for the statements that I endorse!!

So much for FREE SPEACH......
I think we should have clean fuel sources why not try for a Nuclear Reactor on the spit instead? I'll bet the wackos would then gladly accept LNG!

North Spit Property wrote on Jul 30, 2008 6:42 PM:

Mr. McKeown owns about 480 acres of North Spit property.

24 13 28 #200 160 ac
24 13 28 #400 80 ac
24 13 28 #500 160 ac
24 13 29 #200 80 ac

Public information.

Here We Go wrote on Jul 30, 2008 3:43 PM:

The LNG Terminal is a BAD idea. Our elected officials need to tell Mr. Braddock take his project and put it where the sun don't shine. SO Mr.Mayor, How much will your property be worth IF this project is allowed??? Maybe Coos County needs NEW blood as our elected officials! Let's start with the Airport Manager Mr.LeTelleir and go from there.

Common Sense wrote on Jul 30, 2008 3:11 PM:

Totally irresponsible of the World newspaper or any other newspaper to fabricate false titles on quoted articles from any source, especially the Federal Government! No where did the Federal Government say this 2 mile BURN zone is safe or why would they have a report done if it was unimportant or safe as you labeled it? I wonder IF Bob Braddock doesn't own a part of this newspaper some how due to these kinds of articles?

I totally agree with you "from Coos Bay" on that worse case sceniaro study or why have a study at all...

Everyman...who you foolin on NOT being involved in this for $$$ some how (Tell Bob to find another state), on how WEAK your position is for this California LNG SCAM that even Oregon's dept of Energy say's is NOT needed in Oregon!!!

From Coos Bay wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:37 AM:

I am more concerned about human error (New Carissa) or part malfunction, (like the LNG computer chip that failed recently on the east coast and set the ship floating on its own). Our channel is too small and the terminal is too close to the airport and population.
The most vulnerable spot on the LNG tankers is the top of the ships, (Hello, airplanes!). And this Sandia report is on a 'small' breech of about 15 sf. What if it is breeced with a hole 50 sf....wanna guess how far the blast zone would be then??? These studies are on SMALL spills. They should be based on WORSE CASE SCENARIOS..... All 4-5 tanks on board breeched.....remember, the gas heats to 2,000-3000 F and melts steel(McCullough Bridge) and will cause secondary fires...gas stations, homes, forests.... The ship has the energy of 50+ (depending on size) Hiroshima bombs.

Regarding terrorism. We do live in a new world. These ships can be attacked from shore. Why would someone do that here? What better way to shut down California than to cut off their supply in an unprotected port. Easy.

mile burn zone is Not safe to this area wrote on Jul 30, 2008 9:22 AM:

Did Bob Braddock pay you to say a 2 mile burn zone is safe? This 2 mile burn zone will effect thousands of people in this area EVERY time a Lng ship arrives here! All for what, a few jobs filled by outsiders & the gas going to California! Why didn't the Federal report say it was safe, thus where are you judging your "opinion" on, because it's NOT judged by facts of any kind known?????

What Else have they Got wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:56 AM:

Does SCDC and the Port have any other industries to offer the area? Why must we accept LNG? Can't they manage to find another job producing business that won't put our new airport, school and neighbors in danger?

I don't want LNG but, I'm open to other possibilities that are forward thinking and won't be so risky.

Is this all they have?

ronop wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:54 AM:

How much will the worthless North Spit property that is owned by the Coos Bay mayor that will be adjacent to the LNG terminal be worth if he gets his desired LNG terminal? It's time to elect a new face as our political leader.

everyman wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:45 AM:

Let's see, thomas...prove you wrong, huh? How? It is obvious that the anti-lng group makes up numbers (millions down to hundreds of thousands now, huh, Jane?), and believes whatever it wants to believe without considering opposing viewpoints. If I tell you the truth you won't believe me, Thomas. But here it is; I am not paid by and do not work for, Jordan Cove, Mr Braddock, or in any way will I benefit directly from an LNG plant existing on the south coast. I refuse to release tons of personal info on here (you anti-lng'ers are too fanatical), but know that I try to be honest and real...I am not a "shill". But I do get worked up when the same people keep shouting the same propaganda (ZERO for the area. LNG-SCAM, etc) under different names on this forum. Thomas, I'm a real guy, with a real family, trying to make ends meet like everyone else on the south coast, and I think most of the negatives from the anti group are false concerns. I know that dosen't "prove" anything, but....that's the way it is...

. - . mile Burn zone is NOT safe wrote on Jul 30, 2008 7:05 AM:

Hundreds to thousands of local residents will be within the 1.7 to 2.0 mile BURN zone of every Lng ship that comes to this area just so an foreign rich investor can become richer & so California can get the gas! No local resident will qualify (Education & experience requirements) for the few jobs (30 to 50) this SCAM will create!
Lng is twice as expensive as the natural gas used today by local Oregon residents & if we need more gas, the gas from the Rockies will be 1/2 the price of Lng & there is plenty of it too! No brainer, Lng is good for an rich foreign investor named Bob Braddock & California, but is useless to Oregon!

Wyrd wrote on Jul 30, 2008 5:11 AM:

Don't want it.
Never have.
Never will.

David Robinson wrote on Jul 30, 2008 4:34 AM:

LNG = has R easonably I nsurmountable S afety K oncerns.
LNG = is a Dirty,Climate Changing,Fossil Fuel.
LNG = is a Terrorist Target.
LNG = is not a Secure Energy Supply.
LNG = is an Imported Fossil Fuel.
LNG = has transportation problems.
LNG = produces few sustainable jobs.
LNG = needs increased Defence spending.
LNG = has unknown properties(Sandia Tests in Oct - Dec 2008)
LNG = is too expensive.
LNG = is there a Kangaroo loose in the Top Paddock ???
L et`s
N ot
G uess. D.R.

Ignorance is bliss wrote on Jul 30, 2008 2:18 AM:

To all of you talking about the impending terrorist attacks on the Bay Area if this LNG comes in. WAKE UP!! how many of these terminals are there in the U.S.? How often do terrorist attack them? Lets face it, our little Bay Area is not going to be the place they pick to blow up. They want targets with large populations in metropolitan areas that will scare the most people. As for the jobs created, Not only will the company hire people but the ones who get the jobs will spend the money in this area, longshoreman, ship supplies, truck drivers and many more will benifit in the end. For those of you who moved to the area to retire because of the beauty of the place, MOVE BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM. We need jobs!! I am not saying LNG is the answer but we need something. You shot down Nucor, American Steel and now trying to kill this off too. Who is going to change your bedpans when everyone moves away? Last person to leave the bay area turn off the lights.

gene wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:34 PM:

Great postings, it appears the pro LNG group are forming up and they even sound worried.

Thomas wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:18 PM:

I think EVERYMAN is a shill.

Having seen on many internet forums like this, and maybe for such more easily recognizing his type of rhetoric, he clearly seems much more like a paid outsider than a real local.

Prove me wrong?

Everyman is obvious going to profit from LNG wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:50 PM:

His arguments are weak:

45 new people (Outsiders hired by this Lng storage place) vs hundreds of thousants/millions of tourists & Baby Boomers that won't visit or live here in Oregon if this Lng comes here!

Comparing Logging of years ago vs Lng of today, where Logging created thousands of jobs vs Lng at about 45 jobs. Logging NEVER had a 2 mile burn zone either basically alot safer then Lng will ever be!

He is obviously one of Bob Braddock's company people or one of the few in the area that will profit from this useless expensive polluter garbage called Lng that will send the gas through 230 miles of pipeline (Forcing Oregon's citizens to sell their land of 80 foot wide section just so a 36 inch pipe can be placed in the middle of it) on it's way to California!

Jane wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:34 PM:

Sorry Bob Braddock fans,

The point is 1.7 - 2 mile BURN zone from a LNG ship catching fire & blowing up would effect "thousands" of people living in this area (On/near the coast & bay)! How safe could that be a few jobs (around 45 full time jobs that NO local resident will qualify for due to educational & experience requirements)!!!
Add it up folks, a ZERO for this area & for Oregon on this California LNG SCAM that is twice as expensive & polluter as domestic gas used by Oregon citizens today!

P.S. I have 2 Bachelor degrees (1 in engineering & 1 in business) & I'm a registered Republican also!

Scribbler wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:33 PM:

Build it. Build it now. Coos Bay is a heavy industry area. We do stuff like this very well.

And for those who think there aren't educated folks to take some of those jobs already here... two of my sons have their degrees and couldn't get jobs here-- they'd be back in a heartbeat! My wife and I as well, are well qualified.

I resent NIMBY auslanders who think the locals are bumpkins!!!!

RUReady wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:26 PM:

Remember it was Jordan Cove Energy partner Robert "Bud" McFarlane (yes the one from the Iran/Contra affair) who told us in addition to being able to shut down Ras Tanura the largest fossil fuels processing plant on this earth with a mortar that "THERE ARE OTHER THREATS THROUGH SHIPPING, THROUGH PIPELINES THAT ARE TERRIBLY VULNERABLE, EASY TARGETS AND VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DEFEND". Thanks Bud for your honesty.

Out of Line Comment wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:41 PM:

URBAN RENEWAL wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:29 AM:
I don't understand. As long as Barview is within the blast radius, whats the problem?

This is the lowest comment of all. You have no decency and should be ashamed of yourself. Please do us all a favor and keep your comments to yourself.

negotiator wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:21 PM:

iomosiac sells safety and risk management consulting. Of course they want more gas pipelines installed. Those aren't "facts" per se. It is more like marketing material than any form of unbiased investigation of facts. The writing is so one-sided that a third grader could recognize it as propaganda. Somehow, in their scientific investigation of the "facts", IOMosaic doesn't bother to mention this:
"Some older 9-percent nickel steel tanks have shown significant amounts of swallow cracking after years of service."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/tanker-lng.htm

D.R. wrote on Jul 29, 2008 2:03 PM:

what happens,to an LNG Carrier of any size,once the 1000Deg C Pool Fire from the nominal 5m2 breach of one tank of the five has burnt/ melted the mooring ropes ? I can find no mention of this in any Risk Assessment, is there an embarrassing answer?
D.R.

just wondering wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:39 AM:

To EDUCATIONISTHEKEY: #1, Where do you fall in your list of things here? Are you a "local"? If not, this is none of your business! I happen to have graduated high school, I do not nor have I ever lived on welfare. The people that oppose this come from all differant walks of life. The point is, we want a safe clean place to live and raise our families. LNG is simply not safe from my point of view and many others. To bash us and to think that just because we oppose this we must be uneducated and on welfare is not right. Even if we were uneducated and on welfare we still have a say in what impact LNG is going to have in our lives and our home.

everyman wrote on Jul 29, 2008 11:09 AM:

www.iomosaic.com/docs/whitepapers/Managing_LNG_Risks.pdf

Facts, not fear.

Read it yourself...

EducationIsTheKey wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:42 AM:

I feel the majority of persons opposing LNG are the "locals" here who 1- Never even completed High School 2- Have led sheltered lives by hardly ever leaving the area or OR 3- Are on welfare and dont feel they need jobs or for an area to have any sort of economic growth or industry. These "locals" live in a time warp that is keeping this county in a welfare state. The key is education and for some it is way too late.

ronop wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:32 AM:

EDWARD don't forget that Braddock was quoted in this paper telling us that most of the permanent (up to) 60 jobs (up to could be one) will bw filled by outside people. He was also quoted as saying most of the temporary constuction jobs would be filled by outsiders. And he told us last year that we all would be too busy to ask for any open jobs. He also told us it's the law that he must pay for all security and hospitals. There is no such law. What else will he tell us?

George wrote on Jul 29, 2008 10:05 AM:

The Facts are clear, The United States has clearly turned away from LNG.
The facts are equally clear that the rest of the world is (and has) embraced LNG in the immediate past few years.
I am not saying we are wrong but are we the only country in the world correct on this issue? every other nation wrong?

Vonnie wrote on Jul 29, 2008 9:45 AM:

To Urban Renewal: How dare you! My family and I have lived in Barview for the past 30 years. I have raised my family here, my Husband has died here. This is our home. I have my grandchildren come to my home to spend the weekends, little kids. For you to say what you did about "Barview being in the BLAST radius, what's the problem", the problem is, my entire family would be wiped off the face of the earth! You are one sick individual to wish that on anybody! How would you feel if that happended to you and yours? Think about it!

Thomas wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:52 AM:

"Braddock said the Department of Energy has proposed a larger scale test later this year that would simulate attacks on an LNG container ship."

Good, since that's probably the real 'hazard' everyone here will face for a few jobs. A well-planned terrorist attack on an LNG tanker probably could not be stopped, so our community definitely should prepare for handling its catastrophic aftermath if this comes to pass.

Let's also hope they take into consideration the prevailing strong winds that blow towards town, which certainly would compound the danger here. All things considered, Coos Bay is just about the worst possible site for an LNG terminal.

Edward wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:49 AM:

The anti-LNG faction makes 30-50 jobs sound so insignificant. Don't forget, no matter WHO they are and WHERE they are from, they will live in the community...shop in the community...eat in the community...pay taxes in the community...etc. This gives OTHERS the opportunity for jobs. The value of 30-50 jobs is far reaching. Don't let the anti-LNG faction fool you into thinking otherwise!!!

nbsingleparent wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:29 AM:

its not just about schools its about jobs
an this quote from their web page www.jordancoveenergy.com
"Economic Development

The proposed Jordan Cove Energy Project will directly enhance the climate for new and existing industry in the following ways:

The LNG vessel traffic, will significantly increase the annual number of vessel calls at the Port of Coos Bay, helping to:
stabilize Port operations,
increase overall Port utilization, and
increase Port revenues.

These additional vessel calls will provide increased employment for longshore workers, harbor pilots, tugboat operators, and marine service and supply providers.
The construction of the facility – which will take roughly three years – will provide over 1000 jobs at construction peak, in addition to the increased business for local vendors who would provide supplies and services during construction.
When completed, the facility will provide about 60 stable, long-term, family-wage, skilled jobs to local residents. Additionally, new support jobs will be created for tractor tug services, stevedoring and piloting.
In addition to the above benefits, the Jordan Cove Energy Project could enhance Coos County’s attractiveness as a place to locate or expand business"

next councilwoman wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:20 AM:

Dave A., an apparent proponent of LNG in our area, chastised us for not checking to see how many LNG terminals have blown up. He apparently didnt search for himself. Until his challenge I was a supporter of LNG. The answer is five large explosions. With at least 217 dead and at least 604 seriously injured. Oh, I also checked to see if there was ever deaths on a LNG tanker vessel. Answer is six. Thanks for the suggestion Dave as I had no idea until I read for myself this morning.

Charleston resident wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:11 AM:

When you talk about no accidents or terrorist attacks on LNG tankers, that is because we didn't have the terriorist attacking us until the last few years. I am sure the people working in the World Trade Center buildings weren't scared to go to work either, since they had no idea what was about to happen to them. Why take the risks when the amount of people that will get jobs is minimal at best, and people looking to move here will be repelled by LNG Tankers going by. I can't see any plus's for LNG at all. AND NO I AM NOT SITTING ON THE COUCH COLLECTING WELFARE as someone said of people not wanting LNG. I live by the water tho.

everyman wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:51 AM:

Wow, so much distortion to refute, and so little time...To say there will be no local benefit to the jobs gained there is untrue; the people who work there will spend their income locally. And aren't the jobs that no locals are qualified for exactly what we've been saying for years we wish we had, so that our children/grandchildren could stay here instead of moving away? Of the first employees, Im sure some will move away, some will retire, etc. Those jobs will be filled, maybe by locals who improve thier education.

Now about the risk. Anyone can speculate about what MIGHT happen. But look at what HAS happened (There is actually a better track record for safety at LNG plants, nationally, than our public education system...but I don't hear anyone clamoring to close our schools). Technology is improving by the minute, lessening the risks every day...

And frankly, I could not care less where a local plant shipped the Liquified Natural Gas; I always thought distributing a product that other places wanted was GOOD thing?!?

(To the tune of Ironman)
I AM EVERYMAN...

Tag Ur It wrote on Jul 29, 2008 7:18 AM:

HAW HA HAA I get it Everyman, glad to see some humor about this important subject.
I think that having gas is a sure thing. It is important to our future.
Natural gas— liquefied (LNG), is classified under federal law as one of the fuels we should be using more to cut oil imports.

Urban renewal wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:29 AM:

I don't understand. As long as Barview is within the blast radius, whats the problem?

negotiator wrote on Jul 28, 2008 10:33 PM:

57 jobs for a 2 mile blast radius? Who does the negotiating around here? Can the county do something to tax the LNG heavily? People living inside the blast radius should live like oil sheiks. Can we also get a man-made island built off the coast in the shape of a douglas fir tree and put some condos on it? Turn the screws on these energy guys and see what they are willing to cough up.

howard jarvis here wrote on Jul 28, 2008 9:41 PM:

Only the World paper would declare a hazard to be safe - the Feds in the 38 page report didnt.

Kay wrote on Jul 28, 2008 8:39 PM:

nbsinglemom wrote on Jul 28, 2008 3:01 PM:
I am really hoping that this will come in born an raised in the town an being here thought the timber an watching it leave an knowing the majority of the jobs here are all here now are minimum wage jobs supporting them…..we need something an I have read on there web that they will employ about 60 people which is better then nothing this town an our community needs something more the minimum wages jobs supporting each other, everyone in this town did not support acs coming in an now that we have it employees a lot of people in our community, an not to mention I believe that is was one of the gentle that did a tour of the plants did an article an was talking about all the safety things in place…I think that as a community we need to embrace this. An look to the future…things blow up you die in car crashes an air planes an drop dead walking down the street…so let look an see what this can do for you us

Kay:
We could invest in schools, born and raised here.

frank wrote on Jul 28, 2008 8:01 PM:

Theres gotta be some good land available in the Arizona or New Mexico desert for all of you NIMBY (Not in my back yard)people to buy and move to. If you dont like ships, trains, airplanes, tourist, fishermen, or logging-----It would be a great place for you as I'm fairly certain none of these "terrible" things will be there soon. Those of us who choose to stay can then finally have a chance to rebuild this comunity into the thriving area it once was, and could be again!!

everyman wrote on Jul 28, 2008 7:31 PM:

Heeeeeeeey, there...Everywoman...How YOU doin...;-)

contractor wrote on Jul 28, 2008 7:26 PM:

get a grip everyone want's to be hooked up to electricity but no one want's the pole in there back yard. we need jobs!!!!!!!

Thomas wrote on Jul 28, 2008 6:58 PM:

Kris, why is any job worth this risk to all of us?

It strikes me as insanity that the exact mileage of the LNG hazard zone is worth debate ......... as no other enterprise would even be considered for a second if they presented anything close to what this sociopathic nonsense does.

disgusted wrote on Jul 28, 2008 5:47 PM:

Jobs,jobs,jobs. But why these security jobs that will put our whole community at risk. Theres no one here that will get any better than a night watchman position.

Dave A. wrote on Jul 28, 2008 5:44 PM:

Why don't all the Chicken Littles check and see exactly how many LNG terminals have blown up around the US in the past 40 years or so? It's easy to check on the net. Or would you rather just keep insisting that the sky is falling?

NO jobs for local residents from LNG wrote on Jul 28, 2008 5:25 PM:

Maybe 45 full time jobs created by this project at Jordon Cove & NO local resident will qualify due to high education & experience necessary to get an interview for those jobs! Just an outside foreign rich investor, trying to cash in on Oregon with his expensive Lng (2 times more expensive then domestic gas being used right now by Oregon residents) that going to California!

Kris wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:54 PM:

OK ... I have sat back long enough on this subject. Get a grip people. Jobs are a good thing. THIS will create jobs ... family wage jobs! Quit bashing the political leaders and listen for once in your lives. Those that are opposing progress in this area are the ones sitting back in front of the TV and collecting their Welfare every month. I for one ... am tired of supporting you! Get behind this project and apply for one of the jobs that it will create!

no duh... wrote on Jul 28, 2008 3:54 PM:

gee Everyman (god I hope youre not), yeah we can tell youre sarcastic, and many other things beside that.

I hope this plant is built right in your backyard. And by the way, thats NOT sarcasm.

everywoman wrote on Jul 28, 2008 3:13 PM:

to everyman, are you really for real? what is your gibberish anyway? is this your 15 seconds of fame?

nbsinglemom wrote on Jul 28, 2008 3:01 PM:

I am really hoping that this will come in born an raised in the town an being here thought the timber an watching it leave an knowing the majority of the jobs here are all here now are minimum wage jobs supporting them…..we need something an I have read on there web that they will employ about 60 people which is better then nothing this town an our community needs something more the minimum wages jobs supporting each other, everyone in this town did not support acs coming in an now that we have it employees a lot of people in our community, an not to mention I believe that is was one of the gentle that did a tour of the plants did an article an was talking about all the safety things in place…I think that as a community we need to embrace this. An look to the future…things blow up you die in car crashes an air planes an drop dead walking down the street…so let look an see what this can do for you us

Jane wrote on Jul 28, 2008 2:35 PM:

The point here is the 1.7 - 2 mile BURN zone that will impact MANY people in this area when every LNG ship arrives! All this so a foreign rich investor (Bob Braddock) can become richer & so California can get the gas at Oregon's expense! Add it up, great deal for everyone except Oregon!

everyman wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:00 PM:

WHAT?!?! THIS CAN'T BE!!! It must be Bush's fault. Or FERC. Or Bob Braddock. That's it, it's Bob Braddock's fault. Te FACT of the matter is this; THIS LNG PLANT WILL BRING NOTHING BUT DISASTER TO THIS AREA, DISASTER, I TELL YOU!!! Terrorists, explosions and risk, OH MY! Terrorists, explosions and risk, OH MY! Weeeeeeeeee're off to see the governor....

(For those of you with no discernment, the substance dripping from your computer screen is sarcasm...this post is dripping with it...)

everyman wrote on Jul 28, 2008 11:28 AM:

The benefit is only for those outside our own state.

Most will come from outside our own area to work it.

It is too dangerous.

It is too expensive.

It will look horrible and crimp our access to a beloved past-time.

But I'm not talking about LNG...I'm talking about logging...

Sensible logging and sensible LNG development...dosen't seem to be too much difference between the two...

(optional)
   

Advanced Search
Web Search powered by YAHOO! SEARCH

Blogroll

Editors Note | Blog The World Forums

Most Popular


» View Past Poll Results
» Suggest a Poll

Marketplace

Special Sections

More Special Sections
Click here for your local weather!