hmmm wrote on Apr 9, 2008 11:09 AM:
i wonder why my "pro-not for profit" health care comments were not posted yesterday ..censorship? does the world NOT like a voice of reason?
CC wrote on Apr 8, 2008 7:47 AM:
Just think, if we get Hillary Care, or Democratic "Nationalized health care" provided by the governemt, this is how all of our health care will be provided. Scary thoughts.
Melissa wrote on Apr 1, 2008 5:55 PM:
Wow CB MOM you hit it right on the nose.Let me tell you as a CB Mom also I have 2 children and no health care and over a quarter of my income goes on medical bills. And when i call insurance agency's they want more than half of my income and then most dont cover illnesses you may have before you purchase their insurance so that leave my kids out because i have a child with asthma and it is pre existing illness so it is not covered also CB MOM said to check out other country's i have one better rent or buy the movie SICKO then you will see how messed up our country is when it come to health care. It makes me sick when i see children,elderly or vets have to suffer because they can not afford health care or medications.So it is up to us as AMERICANS to do something about this it will never change if we dont stick together and fight for health care for everyone!!!!! NO PERSON LEFT BEHIND LOL
sympathetic wrote on Apr 1, 2008 1:25 PM:
If the VA is going to become "bankrupt" just by taking care of those who valiantly served and were scarred by ANY military conflict, then I say there is not enough money being funded into the VA. There is no reason to put a price on a human life and let someone die a miserable death because of the almighty DOLLAR!!! Not just the VA, but our entire "for-profit" health care (non) system is broken. The rich get richer and the poor can't get decent health care. We have a "class-system" in this country and it is SHAMEFUL". When ther poorest of our citizens become sick and unable to work, who is going to be there to work the minimum wage jobs that serve our elite rich? Ohyeah, the illegal imigrants, that's who...oh, I forgot...they will be sick too because they will have an even HARDER time getting affordable health care. Guess the rich will have to shell out the bucks or get their own hands dirty for a change.
CB Mom wrote on Apr 1, 2008 11:21 AM:
I think regardless of the sitaution that got a person to where they are at...an individual is sick. And anytime ANYONE in society is unable to get treatment, it is inhumane. There are 100's of children who are sick and families cant afford insurance that get the same outcast treatment. Some of the people making posts should do some research about other countries and health care and crime. We are the highest...pretty sad for the "richest and most free" nation. Take a Sociology class, its very informative.
"Seagull" wrote on Mar 31, 2008 10:45 PM:
Just because this man was aboard ship, offshore, doesn't mean he couldn't have come into contact with the toxins used in VN.
I too was aboard ship, offshore (barely).
Our vessel went to Pearl Harbor and while there the crew was sent to assist in a work-party loading barrels of the stuff aboard an aircraft carrier. Those carrier based aircraft are the ones who "delivered" the stuff. A lot of people at a lot of duty stations handled those agents.
No-one can honestly say that 2B never handled the stuff...but him.
vet's daughter wrote on Mar 30, 2008 4:53 AM:
As a daughter of a Viet Nam vet, I know first hand the frustration the vets are under when dealing with the VA. It took my father almost 35 years to get the VA to recognize his diabetes, and PTSD as service connected". There are stories already of guys coming back from Iraq that are missing limbs and the VA is denying them benefits. Good luck to all the vets that are battling the system!
MarDivPhoto wrote on Mar 25, 2008 11:37 AM:
Ranch Hand was the Air Force group that did almost all the spraying done during the war; I know the "cowboys" who were in it personally and was honored to be a guest at their last reunion. Operation Hastings was a Marine operation in the southern part of I Corps in '66, and unless you were a Marine on the ground, you weren't in it.
To those who sympathize with this man's plight and say that since he was a vet he deserves help no matter what, I have to point out that by that rule we'd bankrupt the VA in no time and the vets whose injuries and conditions are truly service-related would suffer thereby. We have too many non-related and even phony vets collecting off the system now (see the book Stolen Valor by Burkett) and enforcing reasonable rules is critical. (And yes, the VA can also be difficult, bureaucratic, and unfair at times, I have been there and don't defend that at all.) Again, this man probably believes it all by now and so is totally sincere in his claims; but that by itself can't be enough.
kk wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:31 AM:
Two Bears, I read your story and I am sorry that you have to go through that. My father is dealing with the VA as well and they arent helping him either. I believe that if you received an honorable discharge, then you should recieve benefits. Also, dont listen to these people who think you are a fraud. To them I want to say that they have no heart and they should care what happened that long ago. You have the proof of what happened and that is all that matters. I hope that you get the attention you deserve. Also, to you Vietnam Vets who think that Two Bears is lying, it has been 40 years. He served our country, isnt that enough to say that he was there and he helped and he cared enough to help? Give him the credit for that and let it be. I cant believe some of you. If it were you in that position, you wouldn't be acting that way. Have some dignity. He is a fellow vet and deserves to be treated like one.
breaks my heart wrote on Mar 20, 2008 8:31 AM:
TWO BEAR
I believe you. I am aware of project SHAD and Operation RANCH HAND.
I want you to know that when I said "Why should I care..." I was being sarcastic. I do care about you and hope you will be able to get the assistance you need to get the medical care you need.
twobear wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:33 PM:
by the way the spraying was done by opp.ranchhand it was first sprayed on opp.osage(as in osage orange) my last opp. was hastings you can look it up just by (opp. hasting 1966 you do the work or shut up love always two bear
two bear wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:25 PM:
my discharge was undesirable 26 june 1968 from the richard e byrd ddg23 it was upgraded 12 sept 1977 to under honorable conditions.it was dated back to 26 june 1968. i boared the uss princeton lph 5 16 nov.1965 i left the princeton oct.1967 i have all my paperwork.to findout what the princeton did just befor that check the news pilot san pedro,ca they did a good report called operating aircraft carrier creates huge supply cost i was a signalman sn. i have told the truth . to find out about the spraying go to prog.112 shad
Samuel wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:51 PM:
If the Department of Defense upgraded his discharge and he has the documentation to prove his claim, I think all of us should give him the benefit of the doubt. If it is in writing then it is probably more than plausible that it happened. I am a vet from the first gulf conflict. I was fortunate enough not to have to go because the detail that I was with got their orders cancelled when the Bush Sr. decided to pull the troops out. However, I had close friends who did come back from over there with problems resulting from issues over there. The VA did not do them justice and it was a fight for them. It would be nice if the VA would investigate this claim that Mr. Loveless has made and be thorough about it just to see if his claim is valid or not. If it is, there will be written documentation to back it. I feel sorry for him because either way, he has a problem and he does need help!!!
PS. thank you to all of you who responded to this story for your service. I do appreciate it! God Bless!
breaks my heart wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:22 PM:
MarDivPhoto
What I was interested in was the facts of his case. Was he on the U.S.S. Princeton in April 1966? The same ship listed by the Blue Water Veterans? The group that claims there were various ways their ships were contaminated by Agent Orange, and it was not the only contaminant they claim. If those two were facts then it doesn't really matter if he remembers the details accurately does it? The last fact would be if he was given an upgrade from dishonorable to honorable. Those are the important elements of his claim I think.
You know what, maybe you are right. Why should I care about an old broken down Vietnam Veteran who is a liar and a dysfunctional human being. And maybe we should all be ashamed at how some veterans have been treated.
MarDivPhoto wrote on Mar 18, 2008 12:46 PM:
"So his details are wrong, it doesn't mean he wasn't exposed"
Wow, I am impressed by your passionate need to sympathize with this man and believe he suffered some kind of chemical effect while in the Navy that caused his cancer.
But the devil is in the details, as the saying goes. No, he could not have been exposed to defoliants on his ship, there were never any on ships, all mixing/spraying was land based. And the low (under 150 feet, sometimes 75 feet) spray mist could not carry out to sea, the breezes always blow landward.
The man has a very bad service record, years of alcoholism and dysfunctionality, and tells stories that are way off base. His credibility gap makes the Grand Canyon look small. I still am sorry for him, as I am for the various other unfortunate people in the world, but that has no demonstrable connection to his time on a ship off the coast of Viet Nam.
breaks my heart wrote on Mar 18, 2008 10:28 AM:
MarDivPhoto
The U.S.S. Apprentice is included in The Blue Water Veterans list of ships.
So his details are wrong, it doesn't mean he wasn't exposed.
MarDivPhoto wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:22 AM:
The man's story is full of fantasies and lies. Nobody mixed any defoliants on Navy vessels, men with legs missing below the knee either have tourniquets or bandages on by the time the get to the ship, or they've bled to death, nobody tested biological agents by spraying them on Navy ships, etc. He may well be sincere in his beliefs of what happened by now, years of drinking and being crazy can help people make their fantasies real in their own minds. But this story is nonsense, and although he's a tragic figure, the country does not owe him anything in regard to his unfortunate illness. It's a nice story for the media, but only that, and it serves no real good to the nation or other vets.
And yes, I am a Nam vet, and a part-time historian of the war.
breaks my heart wrote on Mar 17, 2008 1:44 PM:
Mr. Lemmons
Are you factually stating that Mr. Loveless was not on the U.S.S. Princeton in April 1966 on the coastline north of the DMZ? Or is it your opinion that he wasn't. Do you think it is just coincidence or perhaps a quirk of fate that he now has been diagnosed with chronic lymphocytic leukemia?
Are you denying that drug addiction and alchohol abuse was a problem for many many Vietnam Veterans? Why do you think that your physical injury which medically retired you is so different than his mental injury that left him in the condition he was in?
I agree that you earned the benefits you have. So did he.
I don't understand why you are so against him getting help when he has only two months to live. That is cold.
Dale Lemmons wrote on Mar 17, 2008 10:58 AM:
Dear Breakes my heart. we who honerably served and did our duty never got anything, We earned what ever beifits we recived and C.B. Gal I like many others were 17 while serving in Viet Nam.
KC Coquille wrote on Mar 17, 2008 8:03 AM:
Are we a caring nation? Can we help Two Bears in his last few months? I think so. Past history is just that - past. At this juncture, why should we care whether Two Bears served honorably, or is telling the truth? The Christian thing to do is help him, either via the VA, or the State of Oregon, or charities, or other sources. So many tax dollars are wasted everyday, can we help a dying man?
Dale Lemmons wrote on Mar 17, 2008 12:23 AM:
If Mr Lovless a.k.a 2bears was on the Princton.He never handled agent orange and the Navey never sprayed chem.on him or any of the crew.And all though some troops commited atrocities.It was the so called peace loveing N.V.A. and Viet Cong who really practiced a murderus genacide against there own people.
I was on the Princton during operation Sarelight Aug 1965 and I remember Officers and crew did all they could for us Marines.This Marine would like to say thank you to real crew members.
EAGLES PERCH wrote on Mar 16, 2008 11:33 PM:
I'm sorry, but ole 2 Beers story doesn't jibe. During the Viet Nam war 5 types of discharges were available; honorable, general, undesirable, bad conduct and dishonorable(in disending order). If a discharge was to be upgraded, it was only raised by one grade. Never have I heard of a five grade jump unless the individual was retried and found not guilty.(a million to one shot)So if he received a dishonorable, the best he could acheive might be a bad conduct discharge(BCD). And with a BCD he would still be unable to receive medical benefits. These benefits are reserved for the fighting men and women who served or country honorably. 2 Beers better rethink or reinvent his story and the World reporters need to check their facts before... oh wait they don't check facts, just report what sounds good!
breaks my heart wrote on Mar 16, 2008 11:23 AM:
I can't believe how heartless some of you are. Dale Lemmons since you were in Vietnam I would expect you to be the most understanding. But its the old "I've got mine, screw you" isn't it. The article says that he was later upgraded to honorable discharge. It doesn't look like he ever asked or got anything from the VA before.
I am so angry that the government did this to their own soldiers and have not taken care of them. How many others were killed in Vietnam and are just now
leaving this world?
Big Roy Sanchez wrote on Mar 16, 2008 10:44 AM:
>I am currently serving in Iraq and have >seen the lies from various groups >claiming "mass murder" and such. Folks, >it just didn't happen that way. The mass >murder did take place, but not by US >serviceman. It happened AFTER we left >Vietnam to the tune of over a million >innocents in the killing fields at the >hands of the communist north.
This statement makes no sense. Because you are currently in Iraq, you happen to know murders did not happen in Vietnam, almost 40 years ago?
What sort of qualifications make you able to make this sort of historically based statement? Were you also a Vietnam veteran? Were you there? Did you see it?
In Iraq wrote on Mar 16, 2008 5:41 AM:
Another free loader hoping to mooch off the system...
This guy is a discrace to those who wore and wear the uniform. "The mass murder of civilians" is something that he probably read in a book. Stationed aboard an evacuating medical ship carrying injured soldiers to sick bay tells me that he probably didn't see actual land combat in Vietnam.
The heroes and fallen brothers of WWII saw much worse and rarely complained or demanded a life of comfort via the US Government.
I am currently serving in Iraq and have seen the lies from various groups claiming "mass murder" and such. Folks, it just didn't happen that way. The mass murder did take place, but not by US serviceman. It happened AFTER we left Vietnam to the tune of over a million innocents in the killing fields at the hands of the communist north.
Perhaps people should take personal responsibility for their own health and own lives before they put their hand out and expect gratuity.
The willful slandering of his country 40 years after his dishonorable discharge brings extreme discredit to his plea for help.
Dale Lemmons wrote on Mar 15, 2008 11:38 PM:
While I feel sorry for Mr. Loveless. I as 17 year old Marine veteran of VietNam who was in combat wounded twice and medically retired because of the last one. Resent some one who was given a dishonerable discharge, and messed his life up because of substance abuse being portrayed as a victim of military and the war.He messed his own life up. Us vet's who served and did our duty then and after we came back.resent him being lumped together with someone who didn't.
Terry Keenan wrote on Mar 15, 2008 8:40 PM:
I appreciate the information. At least there is the comformt I am not alone!
Please go here: www.terrykeenan.com and click on the "Chemoboy" logo to read my short story.
Becky Childers wrote on Mar 15, 2008 8:30 PM:
Dear Mr. Loveless,
I am including some information on Vietnam Veterans and the connection with CLL/Agent Orange.
Please contact your congressman to help expediate the process of your claim. I have had to do this with many of the Veterans I have worked with (Cold Injury/Korean War). Take Care and Thank you for your service to our country.
Becky
VA To Grant Benefits To More Vietnam Veterans (CLL)
January 23, 2003........NEW UPDATE....SEE 2006 INFO....BELOW...
WASHINGTON – Based upon a recently released review of scientific studies, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Anthony J. Principi has decided to extend benefits to Vietnam veterans with chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL).
“Compelling evidence has emerged within the scientific community that exposure to herbicides such as Agent Orange is associated with CLL,” Principi said. “I’m exercising my legal authority to ensure the full range of VA benefits is available to Vietnam veterans with CLL.”
The ruling means that veterans with CLL who served in Vietnam during the Vietnam War don’t have to prove that illness is related to their military service to qualify for Department of Veterans Affairs disability compensation. Additionally, for more than 20 years, VA has offered special access to medical care to Vietnam veterans with any health problems that may have resulted from Agent Orange exposure, and this decision will ensure higher-priority access to care in the future.
llj wrote on Mar 15, 2008 6:41 PM:
Whaaaa! Whaaaa! Whaaaa!
Been there. Done that. Get over it~
Concerned wrote on Mar 15, 2008 5:03 PM:
He is not alone in this matter. There is "lots" of these veterans for this era out there fighting for the same thing. They all need help. ALL OF THEM. They have been forgotten. My husband was in the Navy during the vietnam war also, for 7 years, and went through the same, and he has mental problems, unknown to him, that everytime there is a noise..he says "what was that..what was that." Very common for these vets and I am sure all vets. you are right...they all need help.
CB gal wrote on Mar 15, 2008 2:26 PM:
17-year old?
Help him! wrote on Mar 15, 2008 11:23 AM:
I emailed Senators Wyden and Smith and Representative Defasio with the link to this story and the following message. Feel free to copy and email also. If there is anything else I can do I surely will if anyone has some suggestions.
Please read the following article that was printed in The World Newspaper and help this man. It is despicable to me that the Vietnam Veterans are having to fight another war.
Vietnam vet fighting leukemia and the VA
http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2008/03/15/news/doc47db6f4a05dc2710022797.txt
TB wrote on Mar 15, 2008 10:27 AM:
I think the Vietnam vets got the shaft as it is,the least thing this country's government can do is help this guy out with is medical treatment,after all most people were drafted at the time,its not like they asked to be exposed to the harmful chemicals,that were used.
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