SEATTLE - Marine sanctuaries have been a hot topic in Oregon since December, when Gov. Ted Kulongoski began the process of trying to establish a marine sanctuary off the coast of Oregon.

Federal managers are in the midst of dealing with some of the same issues.

On Thursday, the Pacific Fishery Management Council heard testimony from a Western Pacific Fishery Management Council member about how that council has been struggling with issues under that council's authority. It also discussed fishery management issues within the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary in California.

The Northwest Hawaiian Islands Coral Reef Ecosystem Reserve, established in 2000 by an executive order of former President Bill Clinton, is roughly the same size as the whole mainland West Coast and extends out about 100 miles, WPFMC Member Edwin Ebisui said. It covers about 120,000 square miles and if designated as a marine sanctuary, it would be equivalent to six times the size of the other 13 national marine sanctuaries combined.

That's a concern for commercial and recreational fishing and one of the biggest issues repeated at meetings in which Kulongoski's proposal was discussed.

“Will the sanctuary ban fishing?” reads a pamphlet that includes frequently asked questions about the Oregon proposal. “No! The sanctuary will not regulate fishing. Commercial and recreational fishing will continue to be managed by the Pacific Fishery Management Council and, in state waters, by the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission. These agencies will work with the sanctuary to regulate fishing so that it is compatible with the goals and objectives of the sanctuary.”

That cooperative relationship between federal fishery management councils and sanctuaries has been shaky at times.

The council on Thursday also dealt with suggestions on ways to close fishing in the water column in some areas of the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary in California to complement state closures.

And though council members asked for more clarification on options, they spent nearly an hour trying to find ways to mesh federal fishery laws with state laws.

Ebisui also noted the difficulties the WPFMC has experienced during the establishment of the reserve, particularly with regard to fishing. The situation became even more confused when the status reserve was proposed to be changed to national marine sanctuary in 2001.

When the reserve was established, he said, it also set out to establish areas in which fishing was prohibited and caps on the number of fishing permits and levels of harvest as well, Ebisui said.

But those rules weren't set on fishing stock sustainability science, he said. He also noted that new fisheries would be prohibited but non-fishing activities such as cruise ships and ecotourism would be allowed.

The National Marine Sanctuary program evaluated the existing fisheries and found that most were very selective and had low bycatch rates, but still, fishing was proposed to be banned. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration rejected some of the council's proposals to continue to allow fishing, Ebisui said.

“NOAA reviewed the draft fishing regulations and found that WPFMC's recommendation does not fulfill the purposes and policies of the National Marine Sanctuaries Act and goals and objectives of the proposed NWHI sanctuary,” the reserve's Web site, at http://hawaiireef.noaa.gov/designation/fishing2004.html.

“NOAA seems bent on closing or restricting these fisheries,” Ebisui said.

Some council members and staff were concerned about the public process during the reserve establishment process. What was the council's role in the public process regarding closed areas? PFMC Executive Director Don McIsaac asked.

There is only one seat on the more than 25-member Reserve Advisory Council, Ebisui said, but it's a non-voting seat. The council process is much more open, he noted.

Some of the issues with the reserve are perception and direction from the federal regulatory agencies: The National Ocean Service for marine sanctuaries and reserves; the National Marine Fisheries Service, for fishing regulations; and NOAA, the parent agency of both the NOS and NMFS.

West Coast Seafood Processors Association Executive Director and PFMC council member Rod Moore asked about the public process used during the designation phase of the Northwest Hawaiian Islands National Marine Sanctuary.

The council uses the full public process, Moore said, and drafts regulations based on the best available science. It sounded as if the WPFMC did that as well, but NOAA returned the regulations for revision.

“Is the council being trumped by NOAA?” Moore said.

Yes, Ebisui said.

“We're being asked to rubber-stamp what NOAA wants,” Ebisui said. “It's like an episode of the ‘Twilight Zone.'”

In other action, the council:

* Voted to allow a limited drift gillnet fishery for swordfish in federal waters off of California and Oregon. The fishery will be managed under strict marine mammal and sea turtle bycatch caps; and

* Approved an experimental longline swordfish fishery for one vessel off the West Coast to test new longlining techniques and evaluate the amount and kinds of bycatch.